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  1. #1
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Default ESTPs: are you vulnerable or insecure? How?

    This is something I wonder about simply because I find that people who appear exceptionally confident often turn out to be masking deep insecurities. And ESTPs do appear exceptionally confident.

    I'm certainly not suggesting that all or even many ESTPs are deeply insecure - and obviously anyone of any type has their insecurities. But if the ESTPs or those who have been close to them would like to weigh in - I'd be curious as to how and why ESTPs are insecure, where you do have those vulnerabilities and fears.

    Would it perhaps be in the area of feeling that you have a hard time understanding others' emotions, so you're afraid that your interpersonal skills might let you down unexpectedly? Something like that? Or am I way off?

    Please do share if you feel like it.
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  2. #2
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    "You better be good at something because no one's going to hand shit to that ugly face of yours." - my inner critic
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  3. #3
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    "You better be good at something because no one's going to hand shit to that ugly face of yours." - my inner critic
    Would you say that's more about your confidence in your capacity to succeed, or about how much people will like you?? Interesting!

    @Halla74, I'd definitely like you to weigh in!
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  4. #4
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    This is something I wonder about simply because I find that people who appear exceptionally confident often turn out to be masking deep insecurities...
    Sometimes this is the case, yes...

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    ...And ESTPs do appear exceptionally confident.
    This ESTP certainly does.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I'm certainly not suggesting that all or even many ESTPs are deeply insecure - and obviously anyone of any type has their insecurities. But if the ESTPs or those who have been close to them would like to weigh in - I'd be curious as to how and why ESTPs are insecure, where you do have those vulnerabilities and fears.
    An interesting series of questions.
    I'll try to answer them from my vantage point as "ESTP Me."

    INSECURITIES:
    None. I'm not kidding. I'm pretty shameless.
    More accurately, I know my strengths and I capitaslize on them; I know my limitations and I minimize them while I work to improve them.
    Whatever I do, I give it my best, and if that results in failure then I lick my wounds and try, try again.
    Persistence is more important than skill, and skill just as important as raw talent.

    VULNERABILITIES:
    OK, I'm not being trite, seriously, mine are:
    (1) Boredom
    (2) Hunger
    (3) Feeling "Stuck" as in not having options in my life, which is honestly why I am ALWAYS creating new options for myself, and thus mitigating this vulnerability.

    FEARS:
    None. Honestly.
    I'm not afraid of dying, so I'm not afraid of anything.
    I've been stressed to the edges of my wits enough times in my life to know that anything that hasn't killed me will pass, no matter how awful it is to bear at any moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Would it perhaps be in the area of feeling that you have a hard time understanding others' emotions, so you're afraid that your interpersonal skills might let you down unexpectedly? Something like that? Or am I way off?

    Please do share if you feel like it.
    The only person whose thoughts/emotions I've ever had a hard time understanding are those of my wife.
    It caused a HUGE batch of disagreements between us in the past.
    This is why we went to marriage counseling; that is where we were both encouraged to do "self discovery" and introduced us to MBTI.
    But, all that aside, I never FELT like my interpersonal skills had let me down, because those same skills gave me so much success with everyone else in my life, and even with her albeit to some limited degree.
    If I had to categorize how that process made me feel, it made glad that there was some amount of effort that was possible for her and I to both make in order to better understand each other, and get back to being happy as we always were.

    I hope that makes sense.

    My take on life is this:

    "No matter what happens, give it your best shot. This is not a dress rehearsal!"



    -Alex

    P.S. If any follow-up questions feel free to ask, I'm an open book.
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    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
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  5. #5
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    P.S. If any follow-up questions feel free to ask, I'm an open book.
    Thanks! I've known you somewhat for a while now, so most of this didn't come as a great surprise, and seems consistent with what I know of you.

    It does make me wonder something else though. You say that you don't have insecurities. To be very honest, in some ways I find that hard to believe because I think virtually all human beings do. (Although it varies widely - some people are/become fundamentally insecure and it affects everything they do; many people have insecurities but are able to work with them and not be controlled by them.) But you know yourself best.

    But - how do you see people who definitely do have insecurities, and maybe even acknowledge them directly? Do you see them as weak...or?
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  6. #6
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Thanks! I've known you somewhat for a while now, so most of this didn't come as a great surprise, and seems consistent with what I know of you.
    It's nice to hear I'm consistent. I strive to be, so thank you for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It does make me wonder something else though. You say that you don't have insecurities. To be very honest, in some ways I find that hard to believe because I think virtually all human beings do. (Although it varies widely - some people are/become fundamentally insecure and it affects everything they do; many people have insecurities but are able to work with them and not be controlled by them.) But you know yourself best.
    I see your point.
    I don't think we're terribly far from a common understanding though.
    OK, let's see if I can wordsmith your response above into something that jives for both of us.

    The first thing I'll do is re-quote a portion of your reply:

    "...many people have insecurities but are able to work with them and not be controlled by them..."

    This is closer to my reality.

    Here's my next effort to close the gap:

    Let's say my personal definition of "insecurities" equals "self doubting thoughts."
    This being the case, the concept of insecurity is for the most part diminished in my life for two reasons:

    (1) While ESTPs are deep THINKERS, we are more so people of ACTION.

    (2) ESTPs think very, very quickly. So, any thought in my world, ANY THOUGHT, however "self-grandiose" OR "self-doubting" - is nothing more than one of many bursts of neurotransmitters that are bouncing around in my head at any given moment.

    Thoughts are ephemeral to an ESTP at best, for if they linger they morph into CONCEPTS, and it is CONCEPTS that have potential to be chosen as the basis for ACTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    But - how do you see people who definitely do have insecurities, and maybe even acknowledge them directly? Do you see them as weak...or?
    I don't see people who admit to having insecurities as weak or anything negative.
    I see them as people who for one reason or another doubt their own ability to accomplish "X" or be capable of "Y."
    The only thing limiting themselves is the lack of having taken the time and effort needed to accomplish whatever it is they feel they are not able to do.
    That is the case for all people, even ESTPs.

    I'd like to close with one final clarifying thought.
    I am not egotistical.
    I am not pretentious.
    I know that I am mortal.
    I know that I am not perfect.
    I know I have limitations.

    BUT -

    I know that if I apply myself, that even if I fail the first time, second time, or many times thereafter, that there is NOTHING I can't achieve if I am willing to apply myself, and harness the capabilities of those around me that I can unite for the sake of a common cause.

    I am not an Army, but I can amass one if the stakes are high enough.



    -Alex
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    It's nice to hear I'm consistent. I strive to be, so thank you for that.



    I see your point.
    I don't think we're terribly far from a common understanding though.
    OK, let's see if I can wordsmith your response above into something that jives for both of us.

    The first thing I'll do is re-quote a portion of your reply:

    "...many people have insecurities but are able to work with them and not be controlled by them..."

    This is closer to my reality.

    Here's my next effort to close the gap:

    Let's say my personal definition of "insecurities" equals "self doubting thoughts."
    This being the case, the concept of insecurity is for the most part diminished in my life for two reasons:

    (1) While ESTPs are deep THINKERS, we are more so people of ACTION.

    (2) ESTPs think very, very quickly. So, any thought in my world, ANY THOUGHT, however "self-grandiose" OR "self-doubting" - is nothing more than one of many bursts of neurotransmitters that are bouncing around in my head at any given moment.

    Thoughts are ephemeral to an ESTP at best, for if they linger they morph into CONCEPTS, and it is CONCEPTS that have potential to be chosen as the basis for ACTION.



    I don't see people who admit to having insecurities as weak or anything negative.
    I see them as people who for one reason or another doubt their own ability to accomplish "X" or be capable of "Y."
    The only thing limiting themselves is the lack of having taken the time and effort needed to accomplish whatever it is they feel they are not able to do.
    That is the case for all people, even ESTPs.

    I'd like to close with one final clarifying thought.
    I am not egotistical.
    I am not pretentious.
    I know that I am mortal.
    I know that I am not perfect.
    I know I have limitations.

    BUT -

    I know that if I apply myself, that even if I fail the first time, second time, or many times thereafter, that there is NOTHING I can't achieve if I am willing to apply myself, and harness the capabilities of those around me that I can unite for the sake of a common cause.

    I am not an Army, but I can amass one if the stakes are high enough.



    -Alex
    This is (yet another) a great post. I so easily get bogged down by my mental loop that I easily talk myself out of worthwhile opportunities because I overthink things and fail in my head before I even try.

    I am having a huge doubting moment right now over several issues and this especially:

    I see them as people who for one reason or another doubt their own ability to accomplish "X" or be capable of "Y."
    The only thing limiting themselves is the lack of having taken the time and effort needed to accomplish whatever it is they feel they are not able to do.
    really strikes a chord within me. I was searching for a different perspective on my problem, and I have found it. I was giving in to defeat before I had even started a single battle.

    Great thread @SilkRoad! I shall watch it with great interest.

  8. #8
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    This is (yet another) a great post.
    Thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I so easily get bogged down by my mental loop that I easily talk myself out of worthwhile opportunities because I overthink things and fail in my head before I even try.
    When I was younger I used to also.
    Then a few key events happened that made me realize that FAILURE is sometimes experienced on the road to SUCCESS.
    What's the worst that happens if a guy asks a girl to go to the prom with him?
    She says "No."
    Is the guy dead?
    NO.
    Are there other girls in school who would make great dates to the prom?
    YES.
    Life goes on.
    This is an extremely oversimplified example, but I hope it is illustrative of what really matters (1) TRYING, and (2) NOT GIVING UP IF YOUR FIRST PLAN FAILS.

    <***Important Halla Disclaimer: I am NOT condoning SETTLING on LOVE; I am talking about a DATE to a COMMON SOCIAL EVENT, not a LIFELONG COMMITMENT. I will NEVER advocate that people settle for someone that is "Second Best" when they are looking for TRUE LOVE.***>


    ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
    Try to make a 3 point shot in basketball, and you fail.
    Did you die?
    NO.
    Can you pick up the ball and try again?
    YES.
    With enough practive will you be nailing three point shots?
    YES.
    If you just give up and don't try after your initial failure will you ever make a 3 point shot?
    NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I am having a huge doubting moment right now over several issues and this especially:

    ...really strikes a chord within me. I was searching for a different perspective on my problem, and I have found it. I was giving in to defeat before I had even started a single battle.
    ALWAYS give your self THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.
    There is enough in this world that will try to keep you down - DON'T HELP IT!
    Our society is way too intolerant of failure.
    Failure occurs sometimes when people engage in experimentation.
    If Thomas Edison gave up every time one of his experiments failed, we would have far fewer gadgets to play with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Great thread @SilkRoad! I shall watch it with great interest.
    In the meantime, you might want to write down a quick ist of the things you want on you new "Soon To Be Accomplished List."



    -Alex
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  9. #9
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Reading a post from @Halla74 feels like a rush of adrenaline and a high five, like as if we both just successfully surfed a huge wave or something.

  10. #10
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Reading a post from @Halla74 feels like a rush of adrenaline and a high five, like as if we both just successfully surfed a huge wave or something.
    +1
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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