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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Reading a post from @Halla74 feels like a rush of adrenaline and a high five, like as if we both just successfully surfed a huge wave or something.
    I think we need to petition the game companies to make a @Halla74 game.

  2. #12
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Reading a post from @Halla74 feels like a rush of adrenaline and a high five, like as if we both just successfully surfed a huge wave or something.
    +1000
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  3. #13
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    I am humbled.
    Thank you for your kind words and sentiments @redcheerio, @tinker683, @SilkRoad; and @Saturned; I sincerely appreciate them.
    I wish you ALL great success in all that you do, believe it.

    Keep the faith!



    -Alex
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    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  4. #14
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    From an outsider perspective, the chink in an ESTP's armor is their pride. The only time I've seen my two ESTP friends upset about anything was when their pride took a beating. Case one: a woman who got one over on him and the other one went out on a limb for a friend and the friend did not have his back when it came time to cover his. (again, they aren't usually upset about what happened, rather they're upset that they didn't see it coming or regret putting themselves out there). Here's the kicker: These things were publicly known among many people.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  5. #15
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    Ime, it's their lack of willingness to be insecure and vulnerable that is probably their biggest vulnerability. Don't know about other types but kind of like with eg I've seen in ESTJ. But with ESTPs I think power is the source to this, they want to be in control of themselves, they're highly aware of it. So if they let themselves be vulnerable... It would be giving power of themselves over to someone else.

  6. #16
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    Ime, it's their lack of willingness to be insecure and vulnerable that is probably their biggest vulnerability. Don't know about other types but kind of like with eg I've seen in ESTJ. But with ESTPs I think power is the source to this, they want to be in control of themselves, they're highly aware of it. So if they let themselves be vulnerable... It would be giving power of themselves over to someone else.
    Yes, I think you make a good point. With ESTJs I think this can extend to wanting to control others (not always of course, but sometimes it happens to an unhealthy extreme, even wanting to surround themselves with people who are easy to control.) I would guess that with ESTPs it can just be an extreme desire for autonomy - I wouldn't see them wanting to control others so much.
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  7. #17
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    From an outsider perspective...
    This particular ESTP does not at all consider your perspective that of an "outsider."
    I've sought your counsel many a time, and your advice to me has always been very insightful and spot on.
    So, IMHO, you actually *UNDERSTAND* the nature of ESTP types, yet are not judgemental of them, which I sincerely appreciate.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    ...the chink in an ESTP's armor is their pride. The only time I've seen my two ESTP friends upset about anything was when their pride took a beating. Case one: a woman who got one over on him and the other one went out on a limb for a friend and the friend did not have his back when it came time to cover his. (again, they aren't usually upset about what happened, rather they're upset that they didn't see it coming or regret putting themselves out there). Here's the kicker: These things were publicly known among many people.
    This is very insightful. Our pride is precious to us, believe it. We bust out asses everyday to polish the armor and reinforce it as we see fit to accomodate the needs of whatever madness we've decided to get into.

    And, you are also correct that when we do put ourselves at risk for another, when things go the wrong way, our regret/resentment is most always directed at the fact that we totally read the situation wrong. Even if the person we were trying to help turned out to be a treacherous douchebag, we're harder on ourselves than we ever will be on them, because we have *HUGE* expectations of ourselves, and nothing commensurate with our expectations of others. That's not to say that we don't feel others are capable of a whole lot, that's not the case at all. It's more like our happiness is *SO* important to us that we'd rather not outsource its genesis to others because if they don't come through, we suffer our worst fate, and that is feeling stuck, unsatisfied, and mediocre.

    One example from my own life, at one point someone I knew created a huge amount of drama and essentially had me convinced that they were being abused by someone they were involved with. Then, at the pont I decided to try and assist, they turned on me. The whole thing was a fucking disaster, and all three of us lost our jobs due to organizational ignorance of how such cases should be legally handled. But what did I do? I helped the person who turned on me find a new job, because they were incapable of doing so on their own in a timely manner, and they had a kid to feed. I found a better paying job a few weeks later too (Karma!). And then I proceeded to ruin the life of the aggressor by burying him in litigation. He's unemployed to this day. Don't fuck with a fucker.
    The bigger point is that I was more upset with my own idiocy via intervening in the first place, than just being smart and staying out of it, than I was with the person who turned on me during my efforts to try and help them.
    So, lesson learned.
    MDP2525 hits the nail on the head once again!

    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    Ime, it's their lack of willingness to be insecure and vulnerable that is probably their biggest vulnerability.
    Hi Tibby!
    Could you please elaborate on the blue/bolded/italicized portion of your statement above?
    I'm having trouble understanding it.
    My interpretation of that logic is as follows:

    IF "lack of willingness to be insecure and vulnerable" IS a big WEAKNESS
    THEN
    BEING "willing to be insecure and vulnerable" IS a big STRENGTH

    So, that being said, could you please explain to me WHY you conisder that: BEING "willing to be insecure and vulnerable" IS a big STRENGTH?

    What added value, what benefit, what advantage does BEING "willing to be insecure and vulnerable" add to one's life?
    This is the part I don't understand.
    Looking forward to your response!

    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    Don't know about other types but kind of like with eg I've seen in ESTJ. But with ESTPs I think power is the source to this, they want to be in control of themselves, they're highly aware of it.
    We want to be in CONTROL OF OUR OWN DESTINY, and when we feel TRAPPED or LIMITED it sours us to the CORE, because it is totally against our nature to feel as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    So if they let themselves be vulnerable... It would be giving power of themselves over to someone else.
    Disagreed.
    I'll tell you why.
    "Vulnerable" to me means "Open."
    I am VERY Open when it comes to my interpersonal relationships. (7w8 sx/so, go figure!)
    Why? Because I don't want to waste time getting to know, or interacting, with a false shell of a person, some facade that they put on to meet and greet strangers and potential sociopaths.
    I like "The Real Deal." For better or worse, I like people AS THEY ARE, bumps and scars included, inappropriate thoughts or ideas, whatever, I want to deal with REAL people.
    So, likewise, I give people that same view of me, I am very consistent, here, IRL, in outer space, you name the locale, "ME is ME."
    In my opinion, the "BENEFIT" of "lowering my shields" (which, you might refer to as allowing myself to be "vulnerable") is that it is perhaps the only way that I can have a chance to get something that is very important to me, and that is sincere exposure to the true selves of people I wish to, or must interact with in the course of my personal and professional life.
    What happens sometimes?
    Oh yeah, every once and again some fucker blasts you with a "photon torpedo" or a nice unexpected "fazer attack" when my shields are down. Way to go, asshole. You've proven to be an insincere, treacherous, piece of shit, I will now clobber the lights out of you and reduce your life to a mere stinking pile of filth, and then I will bounce happily along my way while at the same time kicking myself for letting something so stupid happen to me.
    BUT - such interactions, regardless of how painful they ever are, do not EVER make me "run around like a hurt turtle in my shell" because I, like many other ESTPs, am EXTREMELY RESILIENT, and I would rather lick my wounds, drop my baggage, and move on with my life as I always have, rather than be mired in my own self-pity/self-deprication as a result of the toxic actions of some fucktard.

    Are we saying the same thing differently? Or do you think I'm in outer space at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes, I think you make a good point. With ESTJs I think this can extend to wanting to control others (not always of course, but sometimes it happens to an unhealthy extreme, even wanting to surround themselves with people who are easy to control.)
    ESTJ = most likely type to turn into a control freak if they develop into an unhealthy person.
    My Dad is a type-A hostile retired U.S. Army Colonel, I've seen it.
    They bring control freak to a whole new level.
    Thing is that even in the wake of all that none of us ever thought of him as an evil or bad person.
    He was just "The big bad motherfucker in charge" and that was that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I would guess that with ESTPs it can just be an extreme desire for autonomy - I wouldn't see them wanting to control others so much.
    BINGO!!!!
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    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
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    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  8. #18

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    The point made about estp being upset that they didn't see it coming or regret putting themselves out there is interesting to me. I was thinking about my impact thread and which direction all that goes in. I feel like when you explain a topic or concept like that the locus of control can get lost in translation.

    Get it?

  9. #19
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The point made about estp being upset that they didn't see it coming or regret putting themselves out there is interesting to me. I was thinking about my impact thread and which direction all that goes in. I feel like when you explain a topic or concept like that the locus of control can get lost in translation.

    Get it?
    Do you mean like, when you "put something out there" that you risk compromising it by partially letting go of it? I can kind of see that. It could almost result in a kind of...independent control-freakery. Not the kind of control-freakery that wants to control other people, but sort of an extreme version of "if you want to do something right, do it yourself."
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Do you mean like, when you "put something out there" that you risk compromising it by partially letting go of it? I can kind of see that. It could almost result in a kind of...independent control-freakery. Not the kind of control-freakery that wants to control other people, but sort of an extreme version of "if you want to do something right, do it yourself."
    There is that angle as well. But I was thinking about, who do you do it for? In the extreme are others pawns in your show?

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