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  1. #11
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    Si is NOT a more stable version of Se. OMG.

    Okay. Si is a linear way of thinking, like a filing cabinet in your mind, which absorbs new data carefully in order to compare the new information to the prior information systematically. It ascribes deep personal subjective meaning to past sensory memories...it's parallel to Ni in a way, because Si creates symbols of tangible physical things...a clock is more than a clock, it represents something else, and so do houses and train tracks...they are representative of underlying archetypes and associations in the mind. However, the Si dom may not be aware of to what degree they do this, where as Ni is more aware of LOOKING UNDERNEATH SYMBOLS. It's almost like Si are the symbols and Ni wants to find out what is underneath them.

    Si notices when something is different or "off"..the picture is crooked, that desk isn't straight, this coffee doesn't taste right...are you sure that's logical? Because I've never seen that before.

    Se on the other hand is the attitude of observing and reacting to sensory data in the present environment. An ISxP isn't going to react as quickly because they aren't Se doms and the Se is filtered through Fi or Ti first.

    Also, the idea that Se means you're always out seeking crazy sensations or making a total whore of yourself or partying day and night is false. Jung cleared that up way back when he described the dominant functional attitudes nearly 100 years ago.

    Does Si sound like what you're attempting to describe?

  2. #12
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Also, the idea that Se means you're always out seeking crazy sensations or making a total whore of yourself or partying day and night is false. Jung cleared that up way back when he described the dominant functional attitudes nearly 100 years ago.
    No no, Jung actually did define Se as a hedonistic experience junkie; albeit a fairly refined one (at least on Psych Types -- still waiting on word on his other works, as I'm unwilling to slog through them). What Se and Si are, in any case, depends on what definition of them you're using though -- and you seem to have Jung mixed up with Berens and Sim.

    Si definition 1 (Jung): Subjective view of reality. Si sees reality as unanchored to any given definition or perspective; depending mainly on the observer's view of it. Reality is what you think it is.

    Si definition 2 (Berens): Storing data and information. Si collects a storehouse of data which to utilize to figure out present circumstances, and prefers to anchor itself to the unchanging and stable.

    Si definition 3 (Sim): Perspective that it is most comfortable to relate reality to what one has experienced with their five senses -- attraction to reliving experiences, and dislike of novelty over what one knows to be best.

    Si definition 4 (Thomson): Preference for having all variables accounted for and stable, gathering expertise to make sure one reliably knows what to do and how to do it; and avoid nasty surprises.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    No no, Jung actually did define Se as a hedonistic experience junkie; albeit a fairly refined one (at least on Psych Types -- still waiting on word on his other works, as I'm unwilling to slog through them). What Se and Si are, in any case, depends on what definition of them you're using though -- and you seem to have Jung mixed up with Berens and Sim.
    No actually I'm paraphrasing Jung and I can show you the source. In fact I will, give me a sec.

  4. #14
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    Okay here it is.

    The OP might want to read over it too.

  5. #15
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I was kind of expecting a supporting quote; this is fairly easy to find. Since you didn't provide it, allow me.

    Upon the lower levels this is the man of tangible reality, with little tendency either for reflection or commanding purpose. To sense the object, to have and if possible to enjoy sensations, is his constant motive. He is by no means unlovable; on the contrary, he frequently has a charming and lively capacity for enjoyment; he is sometimes a jolly fellow, and often a refined æsthete. [p. 459]

    In the former case, the great problems of life hinge upon a good or indifferent dinner; in the latter, they are questions of good taste. When he 'senses', everything essential has been said and done. Nothing can be more than concrete and actual; conjectures that transcend or go beyond the concrete are only permitted on condition that they enhance sensation. This need not be in any way a pleasurable reinforcement, since this type is not a common voluptuary; he merely desires the strongest sensation, and this, by his very nature, he can receive only from without. What comes from within seems to him morbid and objectionable. In so far as lie thinks and feels, he always reduces down to objective foundations, i.e. to influences coming from the object, quite unperturbed by the most violent departures from logic. Tangible reality, under any conditions, makes him breathe again. In this respect he is unexpectedly credulous. He will, without hesitation, relate an obvious psychogenic symptom to the falling barometer, while the existence of a psychic conflict seems to him a fantastic abnormality. His love is incontestably rooted in the manifest attractions of the object. In so far as he is normal, he is conspicuously adjusted to positive reality -- conspicuously, because his adjustment is always visible. His ideal is the actual; in this respect he is considerate. He has no ideals related to ideas -- he has, therefore, no sort of ground for maintaining a hostile attitude towards the reality of things and facts. This expresses itself in all the externals of his life. He dresses well, according to his circumstances ; he keeps a good table for his friends, who are either made comfortable or at least given to understand that his fastidious taste is obliged to impose certain claims upon his entourage. He even convinces one that certain sacrifices are decidedly worth while for the sake of style.
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  6. #16
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    Yeah that's probably better. Why don't I do that? I'm all like "yeah scroll down and ignore all the blah blah blah and just read Extroverted Sensing type."

    It's never even occurred to me to helpfully quote it.

    Oops.

  7. #17
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    Since you did Se, I'll do part of Si.

    Obviously, therefore, no sort of proportional relation exists between object and sensation, but something that is apparently quite irregular and arbitrary judging from without, therefore, it is practically impossible to foretell what will make an impression and what will not. If there were present a capacity and readiness for expression in any way commensurate with the strength of sensation, the irrationality of this type would be extremely evident. This is the case, for instance, when the individual is a creative artist. But, since this is the exception, it usually happens that the characteristic introverted difficulty of expression also conceals his irrationality. On the contrary, he may actually stand out by the very calmness and passivity of his demeanour, or by his rational self-control. This peculiarity, which often leads the superficial judgment astray, is really due to his unrelatedness to objects. Normally the object is not consciously depreciated in the least, but its stimulus is removed from it, because it is immediately replaced by a subjective reaction, which is no longer related to the reality of the object. This, of course, has the same effect as a depreciation of the object.

    Such action has an illusory quality in relation to objective reality, and therefore has a very odd and strange character. It instantly reveals the anti-real subjectivity of the type, But, where the influence of the object does not entirely succeed, it encounters a benevolent neutrality, disclosing little sympathy, yet constantly striving to reassure and adjust. The too-low is raised a little, the too-high is made a little lower; the enthusiastic is damped, the [p. 503] extravagant restrained; and the unusual brought within the 'correct' formula: all this in order to keep the influence of the object within the necessary bounds.

    Relatively speaking, this type has only archaic possibilities of expression for the disposal of his impressions; thought and feeling are relatively unconscious, and, in so far as they have a certain consciousness, they only serve in the necessary, banal, every-day expressions. Hence as conscious functions, they are wholly unfitted to give any adequate rendering of the subjective perceptions. This type, therefore, is uncommonly inaccessible to an objective understanding and he fares no better in the understanding of himself.

    Above all, his development estranges him from the reality of the object, handing him over to his subjective perceptions, which orientate his consciousness in accordance with an archaic reality, although his deficiency in comparative judgment keeps him wholly unaware of this fact. Actually he moves in a mythological world, where men animals, railways, houses, rivers, and mountains appear partly as benevolent deities and partly as malevolent demons. That thus they, appear to him never enters his mind, although their effect upon his judgments and acts can bear no other interpretation. He judges and acts as [p. 504] though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality. If his tendency is to reason objectively, he will sense this difference as morbid; but if, on the other hand, he remains faithful to his irrationality, and is prepared to grant his sensation reality value, the objective world will appear a mere make-belief and a comedy. Only in extreme cases, however, is this dilemma reached. As a rule, the individual acquiesces in his isolation and in the banality of the reality, which, however, he unconsciously treats archaically.
    That last part there is the symbolic or archetypal nature of Si.

  8. #18
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I have a theory that ISXPs are not xi and se. But rather Xi and Si. The reason why is because Se is far too sporadic, se is far too concerned with moving from one place to another in an similar way like Ne. ISxPs tend to do best when focusing on one task at a time, gathering information while still staying passive requiring little or no movement.
    Tsssk.

    If you are of the passive and non versatile sort of ISTP, that's you, not me, don't put your case as a genearlity. My Si sucks completely.

    The reason is because Si is more focused and "stable" version of Se based on the descriptions. ISXP's are very good at noticing little details in their environment and have acute sensory perceptions.
    Not especially, I'am more focused on opportunities for action than details. Details are boring, action is fun, Si vs Se.


    Because of this ISXP's have a tendancy to focus on details in their environment much differently than dom Se types.
    No. Se is Se.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #19
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    ISTP is defined as being composed of Ti and Se.

    Therefore ISTP is Ti and Se.

    End of story.
    That.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Tsssk.

    If you are of the passive and non versatile sort of ISTP, that's you, not me, don't put your case as a genearlity. My Si sucks completely.



    Not especially, I'am more focused on opportunities for action than details. Details are boring, action is fun, Si vs Se.




    No. Se is Se.
    I don't really care about "you" if you haven't noticed I'm talking about ISXP's as a whole you don't make up 99% of the ISXP community just as I don't. Don't just bring personal matters to a discussion talk about the ISXP type as a whole. If you can't relate to how your experiences relate to ISXPs as a whole then just leave the thread and stop wasting valuable thread space.

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