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  1. #21
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    http://www.drawright.com/

    Thinking that embracing your feelings will make you better at "art" is probably dumb. Structured practice will make you better, the only thing feelings do is give you motivation.
    Nicolaides' book is better because it doesn't contain several chapters devoted to pseudo-science right-brain/left-brain arguments and the schedule/practice routine it recommends is more fluid, IMO. Betty Edwards draws a lot of from him (she mentions him a lot, too.)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #22
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    That would be a superior choice, then, I wasn't aware of its existence.
    Whoops.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    http://www.drawright.com/

    Thinking that embracing your feelings will make you better at "art" is probably dumb. Structured practice will make you better, the only thing feelings do is give you motivation.
    Her entire frame of mind seems "off" for creativity. She's stopping herself before she's even starting. She needs to let herself flow so she can open up and get into the right frame of mind to choose an artistic skill to build.

  4. #24
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    http://www.drawright.com/

    Thinking that embracing your feelings will make you better at "art" is probably dumb. Structured practice will make you better, the only thing feelings do is give you motivation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Her entire frame of mind seems "off" for creativity. She's stopping herself before she's even starting. She needs to let herself flow so she can open up and get into the right frame of mind to choose an artistic skill to build.
    It is like Marmie said. TG is critiquing herself way too harshly. Every artist start as a beginner... no matter if you have talent or not.

    When I am in the right frame of mind, I don't critique myself. I tend to just quickly go through what may need fixing (by moving back) and move on to continue drawing. When you begin to critique every step you make, it becomes a huge hassle and it stops you from drawing. Near the end of the product, I look and see what I have done.

    Another thing I tend to do (and a lot of other people tend to do) is listen to music while drawing, it keeps my mind from wandering needlessly all over the place.

    On a day it usually goes by 1 of three scenarios
    1: I concentrate only on what I am trying to draw (without caring whether I make mistakes since I can just fix them.)
    2: I draw, I look and critique at my drawing, I saw that it doesn't look nice - I take forever to draw.
    3: I am thinking about something else along with scenario 2.

    Usually, scenario 1 is what I strive for. What I strive first is to improve myself, not whether it looks better (that can come later.) If I can improve a bit, that more than makes up for it looking not so stellar.

    And it can apply to most visual artist of some sort, but you tend to just train your eyes the longer you draw. Just like photographers and musicians train their respective parts.

  5. #25
    ThatGirl
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    Alright, I start art classes on Monday. They are a lot cheaper than I thought they would be too. Woohoo! Although she kind of made it sound like most of their people are proud of and like to show their art. Which makes me assume at least some of them know wnat they are doing. Lol, I am going to stick out like a sore thumb, but it will be fun.

  6. #26
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Alright, I start art classes on Monday. They are a lot cheaper than I thought they would be too. Woohoo! Although she kind of made it sound like most of their people are proud of and like to show their art. Which makes me assume at least some of them know wnat they are doing. Lol, I am going to stick out like a sore thumb, but it will be fun.
    Chances are that your classmates might also end up helping you while you are learning (especially if your classmates know a bit of what they are doing.) So it's all good.

  7. #27
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    The problem is I just don't see it. I look at clothes, and I think they are ugly. I see it worn by someone, and I think it works. I see furniture, and I think it is ugly. Walk into someone's living room, and think it looks great. Nothing I draw looks even remotely like the idea I had in my mind. I can dream (literally in my dreams) symphonies but am completely tone deaf and cant play an instrument. I cant sing. If I write, I feel absolutely silly putting my thoughts into words.

    It seems like whatever is in my mind never translates well into an art. When I was younger I used to dance, and was very good at ballet. I would start dancing and my mind would go completely blank, I could feel a rush of intense emotion with every move, until the music stopped and I was left with that lingering feeling that comes after watching a good movie, reading a good book, or listening to a specific piece of music. But, I am chubs now although even when I was skinny, my body isn't trained (which takes years) to move like it used to, and I get frustrated by limitation.

    As far as arts go, I can recognize what is well done, but can't create anything. Photography could be cool, but I don't feel that would break through the creative block I have. I think I could be a lot less....feral....if I developed an art as an outlet. Maybe gain some fluidity of personality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    In all seriousness, with drawing at least, it sounds like your problem is control. A lot of beginners have specific images in mind that they want to create, and when their hands aren't trained enough to translate that to the paper, they feel like they have no control and give up. The solution to this - and this may sound fucking corny, but it's true - is to stop thinking of control. Simply draw for the sake of moving a pencil (or charcoal, or whatever) across a paper; learn to appreciate how objects really look and draw them intuitively and quickly without assessment or any focus on technique. A good book to work with on this is Nicolaides' "Drawing the Natural Way." He has beginners focus first and foremost NOT on technique, but rather on getting your mind right when you assess things visually (which is surprisingly a pretty counter-intuitive thing to do.)

    You basically have to simplify things in your mind in order to gain the appropriate skill without getting frustrated (because, yeah, it's going to be frustrating if you keep judging your creations based on what you think they "should" look like.) Simply find pleasure in the act of drawing without judgment of the final result. Then you will gradually be able to "think" with your hand, and there won't be such a disconnect between the visions in your mind and your ability to produce them visually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Rave View Post
    This.

    Drawing is like every other "artistic" careers out there. It takes time, and for some, lots of time. It is probably why most tend to teach you first and foremost the images that are directly in front of you rather than the image that is in your mind.

    Once you can draw consistently, drawing something that comes to mind is a bit easier. But you have to continually draw to get better. Don't worry about your mistakes and just continue drawing. If you are using graphite pencil, you can just erase your mistakes later (just make sure you don't draw hard.) Other than that, make lots of mistakes... it is good for people learning to draw.

    The easiest example is figure drawing. Once you learn the body and continually draw a figure of someone... you begin noticing how to draw the parts without really needing an actual image and can rely on your mind instead. You start to notice what looks "right" and what looks "off."
    Well... everyone already pretty much said what I was going to say. A lot of artist types start their hobbies very young and basically learn trial and error in those early years. But it's never ever too late to learn something new and to become successful in it. The only problem with age, is letting your own ego get in the way of letting things occur naturally and imperfectly. We feel we have to be as good as someone else, and when we don't live up to that, we give up.

    If you haven't, I say, go out and buy yourself a journal/sketch book thing. Nothing fancy. In fact, go real cheap. Make it something that only pertains to you and is for your eyes only. Now, even if it sounds lame when it comes to putting your thoughts to paper, write it anyways. It's for your sake of finding clarity and release. Don't judge what you write. Just write it.
    I used to have a hard time writing and journaling. But, I forced myself to at least just start off writing about what I did during the day, etc. And as I continued writing, I'd start unlocking other thoughts bouncing farther off in my head. Other days, my journal could be described as a schizophrenics diary. But hey, it all helped in the end. Release.
    Same with drawing. Just doodle all over your pages. Don't judge it. A lot of times, when doodling especially, I'm not thinking about what I'm drawing, but rather just moving my hand with a pen or pencil in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Lol! I intend to. The place may be out of business though. I'll look into other places as well. I wont commute though.

    The hand thing is legit. Even stretching my fingers I couldn't hit all the keys. So...limitation.
    You know, there is actually quite a wealth of resources online to help someone to learn how to draw. And there are plenty of books, too. I've even seen youtube videos. Just have fun, and in order to develop your skills, it does help to do "exercises" involving still life, figures, etc.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  8. #28
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Alright, I start art classes on Monday. They are a lot cheaper than I thought they would be too. Woohoo! Although she kind of made it sound like most of their people are proud of and like to show their art. Which makes me assume at least some of them know wnat they are doing. Lol, I am going to stick out like a sore thumb, but it will be fun.
    Awesome!!
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  9. #29
    ThatGirl
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    I just started playing around with things I think are aesthetically pleasing.

    This is what I came up with in the last 10 min.

    Lol! I call this....Basic Shapes




    Is that art? Don't make fun!

  10. #30
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I just started playing around with things I think are aesthetically pleasing.

    This is what I came up with in the last 10 min.

    Lol! I call this....Basic Shapes




    Is that art? Don't make fun!
    I enjoy this. It looks like a great deal of what I draw, when I do. It looks like could be construed into a language. Keep going .

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