[ESTP] ESTPs are actually rare?

[onemoretime]

Then again Fe doms get annoyed too. It's the way they react which is different. So I guess it has nothing to do with the functions. Maybe it's simply maturity, and the lessons you've learned in deeling with issues. If you're 37 years old, married with children you're less likely to fire up the way you used to when you were a teen or when you were in your early 20s.

But after he gets annoyed he does act in the typical xSTP manner. Not in a ESFP manner which he behaves most of the time.

His ebullience is much more of an Fe type than it is an Fi type. He's only happy if you're happy, and not simply for saying a nice thing.

 

[Riva]

^ I agree. If you read my many posts in this thread you'll see that my argument is that he's an ESTP (Se Fe) that gives a ESFP vibe due to his mellow mood. (And that his ESTPness is evident when someone steps on his feet really really hard.)

 

[tinker683]

I've actually have known at least one or two dozen ESTPs in my life, vast majority of them men. I dunno why I've been able to meet so many and others haven't , maybe ExTPs and IxFJs tend to gravitate toward one another often?

As Riva said, seeing them upset is when the differences and the functions become glaringly obviously. I got to watch my ESTP dance partner argue with her ENFP best friend last night for a full hour and the Se-Ti versus the Ne-Fi was actually fascinating to observe.

Other than that, I think everyone at this points knows my opinions of ESTPs so I'll let it be and just say that I've found them to be, while not common, definitely not rare either.

 

[Riva]

As Riva said, seeing them upset is when the differences and the functions become glaringly obviously. I got to watch my ESTP dance partner argue with her ENFP best friend last night for a full hour and the Se-Ti versus the Ne-Fi was actually fascinating to observe.

Why thank you .

 

[Giggly]

Ps -Lolz, Halla an ESFJ. That's a good one. Hmmm.... maybe maybe.

Oh, come on.

The key means of distinguishing the two, in my experience, has been this: when an ESTP communicates, she is effortlessly clear, concise, practical and comprehensible. An ENTP, on the other hand, will communicate well when the conversation involves basic socializing, but when trying to explain an idea, begins to stumble over direct explanations. Instead, she will search for an analogy or other means of relating the idea, rather than explaining it and making it clear. The ESTPs I have known do not normally speak in analogies, preferring to communicate in a straightforward, effective manner. Now, this manner may involve all kinds of ornate and interesting language and figures of speech, but it does not involve conveying the idea that the essence of something is the same as something else. Meanwhile, the latter is the ENTP's preferred method of relating ideas, since the idea likely does not exist in the tangible world.

Thank goodness for the combination of functions or else I'd never understand Ti and Ne, both of which according to tests I suck at.

 

[sleuthiness]

Is it possible to add a poll to this thread?

I'm curious as to whether, on average, non-infps are acquainted with more estps than infps.

Personally, I don't know many, nor do I always find them easy to differentiate, despite my experience.

Several of my sources confirm that this is normal; I'd like to back it up with numbers.

Maybe poll this idea with other dual pairs in mind.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'm curious as to whether, on average, non-infps are acquainted with more estps than infps.

Personally, I don't know many, nor do I always find them easy to differentiate, despite my experience.

I know quite a few ESTPs & ISTPs, but have only been close to a few (female ones, incidentally).
The type I have a notable absence of in my personal life are Te-doms. I know many ESTJs, but I don't interact with them much, and I haven't known many ENTJs at all.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

My best friend is an ESTP (male) and his girlfriend is also an ESTP.
I know three ESFP's. Two male. One female. The female is ESFP all the way. The other two can be pretty quiet. I know that's not their stereotype but you'd be surprised. If an SP isn't a hardcore I or E it can be difficult to type them.

 

[Halla74]

What were you like when you were younger? Has anything changed?

This is an interesting question, Giggly.

The biggest difference between me now vs. when I was younger is that when I was younger I was way more conservative (most likely I was just a reflection of my parents’ values in that regard) whereas nowadays I am more liberal, especially when it comes to personal freedoms. I don’t like anyone telling me what to do, and I don’t make it my business to tell others what to do. I believe people should be able to live their lives as they wish so long as they are not harming others.

Also, I was more aggressive when I was younger. But there is a reason for this. I was an Army brat, and moved every two years. So, each time I went to a new school, somebody wanted to try and mess with the new kid. Little did they know the new kid was raised by an ESTJ type-A hostile U.S. Army Colonel, LOL! I’ve never taken shit from anyone, period. From my earliest memories I can recall my Father instilling these virtues in me. When I was about five or six years old he told me:

“Son, don’t you EVER let anyone pick on you or disrespect you. If you do, they will keep doing it, and they will never stop. I don’t want you starting any fights at school, but if someone gets in your face, or pushes you, or hits you, that’s it, you unload, there is no middle ground, if you’re going to kick someone’s ass, then you beat them down until they can’t get up, and then you pin them down, lock your hand around their throat, get in their face, and tell them if they ever so much as look at you again they will end up in the hospital. Once somebody crosses the line and tries to hurt you, then there are no rules, you do whatever you need to protect yourself, and you hurt them so bad that they have no chance of getting up and going after you a second time, and they will fear you for the rest of your life, as well as all the other idiots who thought it would be cool to watch that kid try to pick on you. Got it?”

My Father also told me: “Don’t you let bullies pick on people in your presence. That isn’t right.”

SO – in all honesty, most of the fights I got into when I was in school were with bullies picking on other kids. When the principal of my school called my Dad about it, my Father told him “If your teachers were doing their jobs watching the kids on the playground, my son wouldn’t have to do it for them.”

*sees Halla's pic avatar*

*now understands why no one wants to see him pissed*

LOL! In all honesty I’m a big teddy bear.

I’m just a big teddy bear that doesn’t take any shit.

As usual, Alex is dominating this thread! Keep up the good work, buddy!

Thank you, Brother OMT!

re: rarity of ESTPs

It is my belief that xxTPs in general are made, and not born. This isn't necessarily a good thing, either - talk to one of us, and you'll likely find that a life circumstance forced us to become hard in certain ways. Much of the time, it may be that for various reasons (in my case, neurological), connecting with people had been difficult growing up. So, our energy goes toward connecting the pieces of the non-human world, seeing how those fit together, and trying to apply that to human relations. IMO, this is where Dom/Aux Ti originates from. In the end, though, we all seek the love and stability of a family that understands us, one that in many circumstances, will never be the one we were born to.

This is very interesting and very insightful. I was born into a military family. “Emotions” and “Feelings” were not considered or talked about. Everybody did what needed to be done. If you wanted to to do something then you better have a logical and rational explanation for it. My Father basically told us that push-ups would cure any ailment we had.

If an INTP drew her education from the natural world, she will likely resemble her ISTP brother in many ways, including an earthy sensibility about things that grounds even the most abstract of conversations. Of course, the earlier the access to human knowledge, the earlier the two types' interests begin to diverge.

My natural world, my environment changed every two years when my Dad got re-stationed. So, I had to draw my education from the natural world over and over again. Maybe that was a big part of me developing so much???

ESTPs and ENTPs aren't necessarily like that. In fact, upon first glance, you'd likely not notice any significant differences between the types.

Exactly.

In an informal context, both dress comfortably, have little regard for social rules and conventions, and have a wide range of interests that they would freely discuss without judgment. Both develop into real people-persons, and are witty and charming in their interactions. Both express a core optimism about the world. Both are incredibly competitive, always seeking to win in some way (or develop a situation into a win-win. This can drive Te nuts: we don't accept that there has to be a loser if there is a winner).

Bingo!

Both love their toilet humor (oh lawd, do we ever).

Guilty as charged!

In fact, I'd estimate that 75% of self-described ENTPs are actually ESTPs. It's just that there's no way to distinguish between Se and Ne as a dominant function from one's own perspective.

We are biased in self evaluation, you are very correct. This is where friends and mentors can help to point out the aspects of ourselves that we do not see, because we see ourselves everyday, it is hard for us to tell what has changed, and what is the same…

The key means of distinguishing the two, in my experience, has been this: when an ESTP communicates, she is effortlessly clear, concise, practical and comprehensible. An ENTP, on the other hand, will communicate well when the conversation involves basic socializing, but when trying to explain an idea, begins to stumble over direct explanations. Instead, she will search for an analogy or other means of relating the idea, rather than explaining it and making it clear. The ESTPs I have known do not normally speak in analogies, preferring to communicate in a straightforward, effective manner.

What you wrote above, OMT, is spot on.

A very good friend of mine is an ENTP 8w7, and I am an ESTP 7w8.

We are both techies, we are both project managers, we both can run a meeting and maintain command of the room, but when it comes to details I seem to have an easier time addressing them IN TERMS THAT THE MEETING PARTICIPANTS UNDERSTAND. This is an important concept, because in no way, shape or form do I consider myself a superior communicator then him. He has no communication issues whatsoever,

BUT – he is so far ahead of the crowd, that when he does try to explain things of a detailed nature, he loses them quickly, they just can’t catch up. For some reason I’m better at “reading the crowd” and knowing what level of granularity I need to speak from to get the job done.

Other interesting paradoxes between us, we’re both artistic (visual art/graphics/music/carpentry/etc.) but he can do what I can in 1/4th of the time. When it comes to “abstraction” though, I am able to do that quicker, but he is better able to find a way to apply it and make it useful.

The dynamic between us is insane; if the two of us are in the same room we dominate the agenda and just power through things, because he and I are on the same page as to how we think work should be done/problems solved/etc. 9 times out of 10, and while we sit there and hack out the solution everyone else just sits back and enjoys the ride. We go nuts on the whiteboard, we throw markers, we tear up paper, we scream just for the sake of adding emphasis, it is a fucking riot.

Now, this manner may involve all kinds of ornate and interesting language and figures of speech, but it does not involve conveying the idea that the essence of something is the same as something else. Meanwhile, the latter is the ENTP's preferred method of relating ideas, since the idea likely does not exist in the tangible world.

Ah haaa. I actually use analogies quite a lot, BUT the examples I choose are things that people can relate to, in order to get them one step closer to understanding a more technical/abstract concept.
You are right though, my ENTP 8w7 friend does use analogies/metaphors, but sometimes they don’t “stick” because he is thinking of things that in fact do not exist, but if they did the whole damn endeavor we were working on would a lot easier.

As Mrcockburn said, we were not making assumptions. 'I was' implying that you don't come across as a typical ESTP. And that you give a ESFP friendly mellow vibe. Therefore taking you as an ESTP example and looking for others who are like you in real life and assume that they are ESTPs is not the thing to do. I also pointed out that you are an ESTP and that it is evident when you get annoyed. But less evident in general circumstances due to you been more mature than most of us due to your age.
We weren't making any assumption.

I know, there’s no need for you to explain your rationale so thoroughly, it’s all good, you don't need to hire a lawyer

Oh I have to correct myself. I wasn't making any assumtions but some others were . But I was the one who dragged you to the subject. So I guess I was the starting point.

OK, now I am going to have to sue you, LOL!

Ps -Lolz, Halla an ESFJ. That's a good one. Hmmm.... maybe maybe.

Not even if I were injected with heroin.

Pps - Thank you for the Bio Data Halla. I shall contact you if I ever need help and my friends are not in my reach.

Huh? You’re welcome, I guess! Send me a PM and let me know what you are referring to, I am confused.

That has to be due to his Fe, not his Te. Te is ultimate 'I'm pissed' function ;-).

Very funny that you called “Te” the ultimate pissed off function, LOL!

Then again Fe doms get annoyed too. It's the way they react which is different. So I guess it has nothing to do with the functions.

Never, ever assume that cognitive function theory can accurately predict the behavior of a human being. Yes, there are general trends that seem to have a pattern of some kind, but everyone’s life is so different, that there is much behavior randomness that cannot be accounted for.

Maybe it's simply maturity, and the lessons you've learned in deeling with issues.

Perhaps!

If you're 37 years old, married with children you're less likely to fire up the way you used to when you were a teen or when you were in your early 20s.

Don’t count on it!

But after he gets annoyed he does act in the typical xSTP manner.

Again, I think there’s a lot of over-generalization going on with the statement above… What is the "general xSTP manner?" Kicking ass? Lots of different types of people kick ass.

Not in a ESFP manner which he behaves most of the time.

OK, STOP. Maybe YOU think I behave like an ESFP most of the time, but I am not of the same opinion.

Te s when annoyed (Which they often do ), tend to point out the weakness of the argument. Could be since Te is a logical functions devoid of feelings.

Ti’s do this too, I do it all the time.

Whereas Se s when annoyed, tends to get spacy and point fingers at you. This could be due to Se being a function that perceives (circumstances or people.) So if the circumstance is wrong the people is wrong. Whereas when it comes to Te, if the actions is wrong what you did was Stupid.

I never get “spacey” when annoyed, I tell people exactly what it is they are doing that is pissing me off. Again, don’t get too caught up in trying to figure all of this stuff out. You should meet more people in real life and stop reading these damn MBTI books I tell you!

His ebullience is much more of an Fe type than it is an Fi type. He's only happy if you're happy, and not simply for saying a nice thing.

My Brother OMT knows me all too well.
Yes, this is the case.

I am ALWAYS happy, and so the best way for me to increase my happiness is to spread it around as far and vastly as possible, and those in my direct company have the highest probability of benefitting as such. I refuse to allow myself to be bored. I deny ever assuming a state of “hunger.” Also, I am not very picky, I’m very open minded. So, if going to restaurant “A” for lunch will make me happy, but my friend wants to go to Restaurant “B”, I’m totally fine with eating at Restaurant “B” and seeing them stuff their face in glee, LOL!

^ I agree. If you read my many posts in this thread you'll see that my argument is that he's an ESTP (Se Fe) that gives a ESFP vibe due to his mellow mood. (And that his ESTPness is evident when someone steps on his feet really really hard.)

The only thing I have to say here, is that if you met my ESFP friend, Jack, you would quickly renounce categorizing ESFPs as mellow. He is INTENSE. He’s funny as hell, but he is a handful, and very particular.

So, I respectfully disagree with ESFP’s as generically being categorized as having a “mellow mood.” From what I have seen, and again, this is from my direct first hand personal experiences with people I know very well and have also forced to sit down and take an MBTI test at some point, anyone who is ESXP is pretty fucking hyper and energetic. Our mission is to make things happen, but for different reasons, and in different ways.

Yes, I have my pissy moments, but they are just as often a matter of principle as they are of someone outright trying to fuck me over. I deal with each differently. Either is going to get read the riot act, that is certain.

My best friend is an ESTP (male) and his girlfriend is also an ESTP.

House of madness, LOLOLOLLL!!!!

I know three ESFP's. Two male. One female. The female is ESFP all the way. The other two can be pretty quiet. I know that's not their stereotype but you'd be surprised.

Thank you for substantiating my case further, MDP. :hi-five:

If an SP isn't a hardcore I or E it can be difficult to type them.

BINGO!

Cheers to all!

umpyouup:

-Alex

 

[miss fortune]

If we're going with stereotypes halla is obviously an infj for posting long posts

 

[Halla74]

If we're going with stereotypes halla is obviously an infj for posting long posts

I'm the INFJ poster child, for sure, LOLZ!

And YOU, Missy Whatever, are now an INFP.

 

[miss fortune]

My posts are too short for that

I'm trying to be a good istj!

(of course the fact that I was browsing on a phone could make any post seem longer!)

 

[Halla74]

My posts are too short for that

I'm trying to be a good istj!

(of course the fact that I was browsing on a phone could make any post seem longer!)

OK, that's it, you're going to get MBTI tested again, you've obviously changed type, and we need to know EXACTLY how you will behave, which we cannot do unless we know your MBTI type, because after all, MBTI does explain every single facet of human behavior. OK, so when are we scheduling you? :yim_rolling_on_the_

 

[Giggly]

whatever: ISFJ

 

[Lightyear]

If we're going with stereotypes halla is obviously an infj for posting long posts

And this poor use of logic obviously proves that Whatever is a F. Sorry girl, welcome to the weepie crowd.

 

[miss fortune]

but... but... I can't be an F!

I am an ESTP with enough common sense and cruelness to decide to remove a snapping turtle from the street with my bare hands (and my handy biker jacket!) because I didn't want for the poor thing to get squished by a passing car AND carrying around a snapping turtle sounded kinna thrilling

 

[sciski]

Not even if I were injected with heroin.

Maybe oxytocin would work better in bringing out any hidden ESFJness.

I am ALWAYS happy, and so the best way for me to increase my happiness is to spread it around as far and vastly as possible, and those in my direct company have the highest probability of benefitting as such.

I wish more people had this attitude.

The only thing I have to say here, is that if you met my ESFP friend, Jack, you would quickly renounce categorizing ESFPs as mellow. He is INTENSE. He’s funny as hell, but he is a handful, and very particular.

Having seen my ESFP friend throw a chair when pushed extremely far into his 'dark' side, I'd have to agree. He also gets incredibly intense about his favourite comic books, which is slightly perplexing, but kind of awesome.

 

[Amethyst]

I've met quite a few ESTPs...I have one ISTP friend, and that's the only other ISTP I know.

I think I read a statistic somewhere that ESTPs were almost as common as ISFJs or something...probably a tripe site.

 

[Walking Tourist]

That's a lot of weeping for an ESTP.
Isn't there a tear quota? Isn't that part of the ESTP user manual?
That was just a random cry because I'm a melodramatic ESFP.

but... but... I can't be an F!

I am an ESTP with enough common sense and cruelness to decide to remove a snapping turtle from the street with my bare hands (and my handy biker jacket!) because I didn't want for the poor thing to get squished by a passing car AND carrying around a snapping turtle sounded kinna thrilling

I wanna play with the snapping turtle, too! Me is jealous!!!!!!!!

 

[NegativeZero]

ISTPs are psychopathic assholes.
ESTPs are charming but full of shit.
ISFPs are sensitive.
ESFPs are anti-intellectual with heavy tattoos.

On-topic, INFJ is the most rare type.

(I'm being facetious with my generalizations, I promise.)