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  1. #51
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    The ESTPs that I know are among the most verbally gifted of my acquaintance, and they lead with Se, so...

    AND, to move away from anecdotes (especially ones that are irrelevant to the topic of discussion *ahem*), I don't see any theoretical reason why Se might make someone less inclined to show their intelligence verbally. That makes no sense.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I don't see any theoretical reason why Se might make someone less inclined to show their intelligence verbally. That makes no sense.
    Yes, it may not make sense. I just linked them up in myself (lack of verbal skills and Se). I realize that Se use may not cause my lack of verbal skills.

    That said. Se is very action oriented. So I thought people who want to have drawn out verbal debates/discussions not geared towards action as an end, might see my lack of interest as stupidity. Also, a Je user would have a more structured way of speaking, even an introverted Je user (IxxJ). I thought this might make them seem "smarter" in verbal sparring.

    Lastly, my posts are not irrelevant. SPs use Se and I'm talking about how other types' perceptions of Se affect their perceptions of SP intelligence (which is, shockingly, the thread title). And if you think that wasn't what I was talking about, that's certainly what MDP's question was about... so I'm guessing your beef is not that I'm off-topic, but that you don't actually care. Nice.
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  3. #53
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    Yes, it may not make sense. I just linked them up in myself (lack of verbal skills and Se). I realize that Se use may not cause my lack of verbal skills.

    That said. Se is very action oriented. So I thought people who want to have drawn out verbal debates/discussions not geared towards action as an end, might see my lack of interest as stupidity.
    Isn't debating itself an action?

    Even Keirsey (that scum ) describes SPs as "users of tools" and includes "language" as one of these potential tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    Also, a Je user would have a more structured way of speaking, even an introverted Je user (IxxJ). I thought this might make them seem "smarter" in verbal sparring.
    Whichever trait is associated with composure (if any) would seem, I think, to have the greatest effect in this arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    Lastly, my posts are not irrelevant. SPs use Se and I'm talking about how other types' perceptions of Se affect their perceptions of SP intelligence (which is, shockingly, the thread title). And if you think that wasn't what I was talking about, that's certainly what MDP's question was about... so I'm guessing your beef is not that I'm off-topic, but that you don't actually care. Nice.
    I wasn't talking about you or anything you said. I was talking about Elfboy's perception of Se (as well as that crap about his own reception amongst his SJ and NJ peers) as being totally irrelevant to the topic of "SPs and intelligence." Which it is.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    My ex was a very intelligent ISTP. Extremely intelligent. Everything he did, he won. Most things tended to be more physical or artistic but for awhile he played chess, until he beat everyone he could gain access to, including a ton of NTs, then he stopped and found something e wasnt winning already.

    He also scored the highest SAT scores out of his high school for the previous five years ( rural town of 30K). His mom had to bail him out of jail the morning of the test and he was still drunk when he took it.

    He also tested at over 140 on various IQ tests. He was quite exceptionally at logic puzzles involving moving parts and pieces-like the interlocking rings and such.

    His family does speak to IQ being inherited though, at least ancetdotally, as his dad was an INTJ in the Navy nuke program (very competitive), his maternal grandmom was a member of mensa ENFP, and his maternal grandad was an ISTP electrical engineer at NASA. His paternal grandad was an ISTP electrical engineer/navy seal who retired on a partially sunken boat with nine cats and sent us all crazy ass gifts out of catalogs every year.

    With SPs in general I know a ton of ESTPs who complete biology/chemistry degrees but they are drawn into sales very quickly as they are not interested in the abstract lab work. One really cool ESTP I know has loads of Ni, and majored in philosophy in college. I also know an ISFP with an MS in Microbiology and several ESFP scientific sales reps as well.

    So, I dunno, they guys have whatever form of IQ it takes to be very clever and very successful in life. They seem very happy.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Isn't debating itself an action?

    Even Keirsey (that scum ) describes SPs as "users of tools" and includes "language" as one of these potential tools.
    Technically, yes. I just find it too idle.

    Perhaps the use of language applies more to the extraverts.?
    Strychnine is all-natural,
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    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

  6. #56
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    My ex was a very intelligent ISTP. Extremely intelligent. Everything he did, he won. Most things tended to be more physical or artistic but for awhile he played chess, until he beat everyone he could gain access to, including a ton of NTs, then he stopped and found something e wasnt winning already.

    He also scored the highest SAT scores out of his high school for the previous five years ( rural town of 30K). His mom had to bail him out of jail the morning of the test and he was still drunk when he took it.

    He also tested at over 140 on various IQ tests. He was quite exceptionally at logic puzzles involving moving parts and pieces-like the interlocking rings and such.

    His family does speak to IQ being inherited though, at least ancetdotally, as his dad was an INTJ in the Navy nuke program (very competitive), his maternal grandmom was a member of mensa ENFP, and his maternal grandad was an ISTP electrical engineer at NASA. His paternal grandad was an ISTP electrical engineer/navy seal who retired on a partially sunken boat with nine cats and sent us all crazy ass gifts out of catalogs every year.

    With SPs in general I know a ton of ESTPs who complete biology/chemistry degrees but they are drawn into sales very quickly as they are not interested in the abstract lab work. One really cool ESTP I know has loads of Ni, and majored in philosophy in college. I also know an ISFP with an MS in Microbiology and several ESFP scientific sales reps as well.

    So, I dunno, they guys have whatever form of IQ it takes to be very clever and very successful in life. They seem very happy.
    an ESTP who majored in philosophy? damn, philosophy is too N even for me and it's my first function
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  7. #57
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I can relate to this. most SJs and NFJs I've talked to think I'me stuck up. NTJs on the other hand love me I'm one of the only people that is confident and emotionally stable enough to have a good conversation with them. other ENFPs also seem to get along great with me and SPs usually either love me or want to kill me
    So is this the difference between "brilliant" and "stupid" to you?....
    (Decided to start using smilies appropriately to avoid misinterpretations.... Though, let it be known that I don't really like a lot of smilies.)

    and the "few in the middle" must have no opinion of you...

    I'm still waiting on a definition of intelligence, otherwise.. it's too much of a guessing game...

    I agree with Penny as well,- some SP's don't see discussion and debating as real action/ having a point. ... That may be confused as stupidity for some.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    an ESTP who majored in philosophy? damn, philosophy is too N even for me and it's my first function
    What does "too N?" mean?

    I always found philosophy to be an easy A.. But yet completely pointless.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
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  9. #59
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    So is this the difference between "brilliant" and "stupid" to you?....
    (Decided to start using smilies appropriately to avoid misinterpretations.... Though, let it be known that I don't really like a lot of smilies.)

    and the "few in the middle" must have no opinion of you...

    I'm still waiting on a definition of intelligence, otherwise.. it's too much of a guessing game...

    I agree with Penny as well,- some SP's don't see discussion and debating as real action/ having a point. ... That may be confused as stupidity for some.
    no, this is a seperate point.
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  10. #60
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    Yes, it may not make sense. I just linked them up in myself (lack of verbal skills and Se). I realize that Se use may not cause my lack of verbal skills.

    That said. Se is very action oriented. So I thought people who want to have drawn out verbal debates/discussions not geared towards action as an end, might see my lack of interest as stupidity. Also, a Je user would have a more structured way of speaking, even an introverted Je user (IxxJ). I thought this might make them seem "smarter" in verbal sparring.

    Lastly, my posts are not irrelevant. SPs use Se and I'm talking about how other types' perceptions of Se affect their perceptions of SP intelligence (which is, shockingly, the thread title). And if you think that wasn't what I was talking about, that's certainly what MDP's question was about... so I'm guessing your beef is not that I'm off-topic, but that you don't actually care. Nice.
    ah, so you're saying that an NP might consider an SP to be stupid because they don't as often enjoy the kind of verbal sparring and intellectual bounciness that we do. conversely, SPs might consider NPs wimpy because they don't partake in the kinds of physical competitions that SPs seem to be found of.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

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