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  1. #41
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, Bamboo said that the Big Five "doesn't measure intelligence." It doesn't. It measures personality across five scales.
    I agree with what Bamboo said, but that doesn't mean that there's no correlation between various intelligence measures and Big 5 or MBTI. If Big 5 and MBTI didn't correlate with anything, they wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

    So, you can make statements "people with type X (or people with trait Y) tend to do better/worse on IQ (or other intelligence) tests" and have some empirical support. That doesn't say much of anything about any particular person of that type (or with that trait).

    So I was just trying to point out that even though it's true MBTI and Big 5 don't measure intelligence, there are correlations with some intelligence measures. You can know those correlations exist but remain aware of how little they say about any particular individual (including yourself).

  2. #42
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I agree with what Bamboo said
    Ah, okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    but that doesn't mean that there's no correlation between various intelligence measures and Big 5 or MBTI.
    That's true. Neither I nor (I think) Bamboo would disagree with this in principle. From what I have read, however, the only scale with any correlation to IQ is openness (which is relatively weak), and it has been argued that the personality test questions which cause this should not be included as measures of that scale. Moreover, the five factor model itself has been criticized as suffering from methodological, theoretical, and behavior-predictive deficiencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    If Big 5 and MBTI didn't correlate with anything, they wouldn't be nearly as interesting.
    Sure. But just because certain correlations would be interesting (should they exist) doesn't mean that they actually do exist, and we should be wary of accepting any data at face value (or over-interpreting data that is at best shaky.) The possibility remains that all of these personality measures, when sufficiently adjusted to take care serious methodological problems (if that ever happens), do not have any meaningful correlations with behaviors (e.g., job performance) or intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    So, you can make statements "people with type X (or people with trait Y) tend to do better/worse on IQ (or other intelligence) tests" and have some empirical support. That doesn't say much of anything about any particular person of that type (or with that trait).

    So I was just trying to point out that even though it's true MBTI and Big 5 don't measure intelligence, there are correlations with some intelligence measures. You can know those correlations exist but remain aware of how little they say about any particular individual (including yourself).
    Sure. That's obvious.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Hmm, this got interesting.

    But sure, I accept that there are correlations, but they seem pretty weak. Perhaps I was being overly declarative, but as far as most people are concerned (and I'm talking about the typical MBTI novice who might be under the impression that having the same type as Einstein makes them an Einstein), it's important to note there are some uses of MBTI that are more productive than others.

    I'm cautioning against using MBTI beyond its capacities.

    Complicating all of this is that the concept of "intelligence" is broadly defined, although there were a few references to different types of intelligence which can help clarify this.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  4. #44
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    so what you're saying is that their intelligence is not discernable verbally so they can be perceived as stupid if it doesn't show itself in another way. that makes sense.
    For the most part but it's all in perception.

    You are ENFP. My best friend is an ENFP. I also have another good friend, ESTP. I hang out with both groups of friends yet never together. ENFP wanted to know why I wouldn't invite her along when I hung out with ESTP. I told her she wouldn't like it. She disagreed. So one day I did. Everyone got along fine. No problems but I could tell the ENFP was not enjoying herself.

    She said the ESTP was "kind of stupid". Next time I hung out with ESTP he promptly asked what the problem was with my "stuck-up friend" lol...

    Seems my friend and you had the same impression of Se. That's sort of interesting. Are you sure it's all SP's that you see this with or specifically certain types within the SP spectrum?
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  5. #45
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    For the most part but it's all in perception.

    You are ENFP. My best friend is an ENFP. I also have another good friend, ESTP. I hang out with both groups of friends yet never together. ENFP wanted to know why I wouldn't invite her along when I hung out with ESTP. I told her she wouldn't like it. She disagreed. So one day I did. Everyone got along fine. No problems but I could tell the ENFP was not enjoying herself.

    She said the ESTP was "kind of stupid". Next time I hung out with ESTP he promptly asked what the problem was with my "stuck-up friend" lol...

    Seems my friend and you had the same impression of Se. That's sort of interesting. Are you sure it's all SP's that you see this with or specifically certain types within the SP spectrum?
    I can relate to this. most SJs and NFJs I've talked to think I'me stuck up. NTJs on the other hand love me I'm one of the only people that is confident and emotionally stable enough to have a good conversation with them. other ENFPs also seem to get along great with me and SPs usually either love me or want to kill me
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  6. #46
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Seems my friend and you had the same impression of Se. That's sort of interesting. Are you sure it's all SP's that you see this with or specifically certain types within the SP spectrum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I can relate to this. most SJs and NFJs I've talked to think I'me stuck up. NTJs on the other hand love me I'm one of the only people that is confident and emotionally stable enough to have a good conversation with them. other ENFPs also seem to get along great with me and SPs usually either love me or want to kill me
    Ugh. Who cares?
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  7. #47
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Ugh. Who cares?
    well, I do and I made the thread
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  8. #48
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    well, I do and I made the thread
    That doesn't matter.
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  9. #49
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    That doesn't matter.
    i felt compelled to post, so I posted, it wasn't because anyone else would care. I know as an ENFP I'm happy to talk simply for it's own sake, but for a more precise, practical type like an ISTP, the feeling is probably not mutual.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  10. #50
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    And yet, MDP2525 is an ISTP and asked you that question. I think it's a good one. I'm also interested to know how other types perceive Se. I for one am not good with words, so types that prefer verbal discussions/debates/sparring probably won't see that I'm not a moron . Yet if they see me in action perhaps they would think differently. I think that would definitely affect perception of Se. If you have more to say about how you see Se, that would be appreciated. Thanks.
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