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  1. #31
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Intelligence is a tricky word to use in any situation. What does it actually mean to say someone is intelligent? Or not intelligent? what constitutes the measured intelligence? Is this able to be measured by objective or subjective means, etc.

    The MBTI is simply a tool that we can use to learn more about ourselves or others. It's a profile on our general tendencies and preferences. That has little to nothing to do with intelligence as a whole.

    All types have their gifts to share with each other because the world needs more than one type to go around. if the world was all NFs it would be all cuddles and rainbows for about 5 minutes and then some kind of emo meltdown would occur. (they would be an EPIC 5 minutes....)

    I have four friends. One is an NF, one is an NT, one is an SJ, and one is an SP.

    The NF is a super empath and always has a shoulder available for someone to cry on like she's the empath's answer to shiva. However, she is a giant flake who asks me questions like "yay! I downloaded a new game to my iPad.....wait! It disappeared!, where did it go!??!" answer: scroll the screen over.

    The NT is a genius when it comes to computer science. However, he cant type a paper that made sense if it would save his life. He changes tense mid way through a sentence.

    The SJ is an incredible teacher who's students adore her. However, her frequent inability to see the forest for the trees creates tension with her friends and coworkers because she bogs down into detail land.

    The SP is the best painter I have ever met. He watched the tv show lost with me because he thought it was entertaining. He spent exactly 0 minutes logged onto www.the fuselage.com chatting about convoluted theories.

    I guess my rambling point is that it is easy to want to shove mbti into everything like it's sugar, but it doesn't work that way. I did that myself many years ago and it didn't make me happier or really even happy period. I started viewing people based on whatever type I thought they were instead of along the lines of hey, this person is nice to me and others and I enjoy time spent with them.

    I am starting to feel like a type c talking head on the topic. (Like those men you see on Fox who just analyze all day long.)

    "Well, Saturned, I think it's important to note that..."

    Haha, in all seriousness though. I think it's nice to be able to try to type people and get to know them better, but the danger with MBTI is that you see these generalizations in your daily life in people, (without even really testing their type, just taking educated guesses-) and then after a while develop these strange theories about different types. (I have a few theories myself that are probably just wrong.) Once you develop the theory it kind of impedes your ability to accurately type people, because you see people who have these qualities that you think types possess and then mistype them, completely defeating the point. So, "Oh I saw this person who was really dumb and takes everything literally and also is really into cars and rock concerts." Must be an SP. And then assume, "If they're an SP then they must also have all these other characteristics." Well, none of this stuff really says anything about someone's cognitive processes... I'm rambling myself... The point is that there is a big danger in making these huge generalizations because then it can get you into a big mistyping mess, which kind of defeats the purpose of MBTI.. (Understanding people better...)

    Edit: Just reread the post... "Big danger" was really dramatic, but I'm leaving it because it makes me giggle.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
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    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  2. #32
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    There just isn't anything in MBTI that measures intelligence - it's about personality preferences.

    Those preferences are:

    introversion/extroversion - I don't know of anything that links these to intelligence but I'm sure you could research this. I/E are widely accepted components of personality.
    Sensing/intuition suggests different ways of looking at things. Perhaps being able to "step back" and see things helps - but just because you can "see the wider picture" doesn't mean you can understand it.
    Thinking/Feeling suggests differing intellectual focuses, but that doesn't mean you are good at it. Thinkers can be stupid, feelers can be poor at understanding emotions.
    P/J generally suggests leaving things open or closed ended, among other things.

    Understand this: MBTI just isn't a scientific system like the more widely accepted (in the soft science of psychology) Big 5 or OCEAN (which don't measure intelligence either). It's a useful, fun tool that is easy to understand, but it's not particularly accurate. Be careful in how you use it.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #33
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'll happily let people know that I'm smarter than them whenever I feel that they're getting too cocky... otherwise I'll play dumb so that people think that they have the advantage in the situation
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #34
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    Shortnsweet: You rambled!! Victory and ponies are mine!

    Everyone has their own unique, type related and type non related, strengths and weaknesses. None of which are related to intelligence. I think a generalized conjecture could be drawn in regards to type and certain kinds of intelligence.

    You could say that an ISFP is more likely to be behind georgia o'keefes brain than ENTJ. But I didn't think that means that there are no ENTJ artists and that all ISFPs are artists.

    With my example friends... I am more likely to go to my NF friend for a talk about relationships. However, I still chat with my NT friend about that stuff because sometimes what I need is his brand of empathy. He won't sit and cry with me about stuff, but he also won't let me wallow in self pity.

    (I also just have a mental thing against IQ tests. I self estimate that mine has to be at least 185. However, I get distracted easy and my mind wanders around and I end up a tick south of that number.... >_>)

  5. #35
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm guessing your basing your self evaluation on scores before the 1972 revision of the stanford binet there then ....
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #36
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    There just isn't anything in MBTI that measures intelligence - it's about personality preferences.

    Those preferences are:

    introversion/extroversion - I don't know of anything that links these to intelligence but I'm sure you could research this. I/E are widely accepted components of personality.
    Sensing/intuition suggests different ways of looking at things. Perhaps being able to "step back" and see things helps - but just because you can "see the wider picture" doesn't mean you can understand it.
    Thinking/Feeling suggests differing intellectual focuses, but that doesn't mean you are good at it. Thinkers can be stupid, feelers can be poor at understanding emotions.
    P/J generally suggests leaving things open or closed ended, among other things.

    Understand this: MBTI just isn't a scientific system like the more widely accepted (in the soft science of psychology) Big 5 or OCEAN (which don't measure intelligence either). It's a useful, fun tool that is easy to understand, but it's not particularly accurate. Be careful in how you use it.
    First of all, I agree with not reading too much into correlations between personality measures and intelligence (or other areas). Even when statistical correlations exist, they typically are relatively weak and they say little to nothing about any particular case.

    Secondly, note that even some Big 5 scales are associated with intelligence measures. For example, being more conscientious (which correlates very roughly with MBTI Judging) is negatively correlated with various types of intelligence (see this study, for example). Conversely being agreeable (correlates to MBTI Feeling) has a positive correlation with verbal reasoning.

    Conversely, conscientiousness is positively correlated with academic performance and performance in other structured environments.

    Even if you dismiss the MBTI as being insufficiently scientific and hold up Big 5 instead, it doesn't get rid of correlations with measures of intelligence. Also, some MBTI studies (like this one) have shown correlation between MBTI and certain intelligence measures. Even if you don't buy into the MBTI model, the MBTI has reasonable (although not great) test/re-test reliability and correlations exist with other measures (like some intelligence tests). So correlations exist, whether one finds them distasteful or not.

    I think it's far more arguable that some intelligence tests (like IQ tests) don't measure the full range of human intelligence. Theories of "multiple intelligences" try to address this problem, but there is no true, comprehensive intelligence test. It's difficult to imagine one that captures the full range of measures of creativity, practical prowess, hard won wisdom plus various more intellectual intelligences. Meanwhile, feeling superior/inferior or basing one's self worth on intelligence tests doesn't seem like a recipe for happiness.

  7. #37
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    First of all, I agree with not reading too much into correlations between personality measures and intelligence (or other areas). Even when statistical correlations exist, they typically are relatively weak and they say little to nothing about any particular case.

    Secondly, note that even some Big 5 scales are associated with intelligence measures. For example, being more conscientious (which correlates very roughly with MBTI Judging) is negatively correlated with various types of intelligence (see this study, for example). Conversely being agreeable (correlates to MBTI Feeling) has a positive correlation with verbal reasoning.

    Conversely, conscientiousness is positively correlated with academic performance and performance in other structured environments.

    Even if you dismiss the MBTI as being insufficiently scientific and hold up Big 5 instead, it doesn't get rid of correlations with measures of intelligence. Also, some MBTI studies (like this one) have shown correlation between MBTI and certain intelligence measures. Even if you don't buy into the MBTI model, the MBTI has reasonable (although not great) test/re-test reliability and correlations exist with other measures (like some intelligence tests). So correlations exist, whether one finds them distasteful or not.

    I think it's far more arguable that some intelligence tests (like IQ tests) don't measure the full range of human intelligence. Theories of "multiple intelligences" try to address this problem, but there is no true, comprehensive intelligence test. It's difficult to imagine one that captures the full range of measures of creativity, practical prowess, hard won wisdom plus various more intellectual intelligences. Meanwhile, feeling superior/inferior or basing one's self worth on intelligence tests doesn't seem like a recipe for happiness.
    I don't get what this has to do with Bamboo's response. I don't think he ever said that the five factor model didn't have correlations to certain intelligence measures...
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #38
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I don't get what this has to do with Bamboo's response. I don't think he ever said that the five factor model didn't have correlations to certain intelligence measures...
    Well, Bamboo did say that Big five doesn't measure intelligence... Seymore sounded like he was kind of agreeing with him, while taking into account that there are some statistics with weak correlations available.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  9. #39
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Well, Bamboo did say that Big five doesn't measure intelligence... Seymore sounded like he was kind of agreeing with him, while taking into account that there are some statistics with weak correlations available.
    Yeah, Bamboo said that the Big Five "doesn't measure intelligence." It doesn't. It measures personality across five scales.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #40
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Actual intelligence has little to do with personality type, in my opinion. I think what has given SPs the "stupid" brand is that they less often have intellectual interests.

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