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  1. #1
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Default ISPs: Do you identify with this statement? (tertiary Ni)

    From The Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki

    As a Tertiary Function, Ni typically leads ISPs to suspect others of hypocrisy and cheating and putting on appearances aimed at exploiting people's credulity--especially hypocrisy inherent in social institutions. Sometimes ISPs draw upon Ni to find ways to throw a monkey wrench into social systems that call them into some kind of obligation: to respond in ways that don't make sense within the system's explicitly stated ways of interpreting behavior as cooperative or hostile (but are indeed hostile).
    Do you think she is just pinning these ideas to tertiary Ni without any justification, or are her ideas about the role of Ni justified?

  2. #2
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I don't know...I recognize myself using Ni fairly often but not really in that way. I tend to go the other way and infer good intentions when they aren't necessarily there.

    I also don't do whatever the other thing means (become a rebel without a cause? something like that?)

  3. #3
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Me clearly not an ISP... but if I replace Ni with Ti for INFJ... and make a similar statement. I have to disagree with it.

  4. #4
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    If I remember well, in Lenore Thomson's view, the Tertiary function is little more than a badly behaved rotten little kid shouting insults and insanities and trying to veer the ship off course. I personally totally disagree with that view.

  5. #5
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    That is not her work, but someone who has created the site to discuss her work. Lenore Thomson gives very little information on how the teritiary works, as does most MBTI enthusiasts.

    Oddly enough this description may fit me better, “Ni typically leads to either self-doubt or to a claim of mystic vision--to see themselves as an oracle of transcendent truth, bypassing the need for finding things out through observation, reasoning, and putting ideas to a test.”

  6. #6
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    Hmm. I think I've noticed (what I've interpreted to be) tertiary Ni in both the "mystic vision" sense and the paranoid sense ("everything is connected, but maybe in a creepy way!"). The second sentence is interesting, though I'm not sure whether I agree... this is a pretty interesting topic in general, I think.

  7. #7
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Yes and no. Most of the time I assume people are as honest and frank as I am until proven otherwise. However, I usually think people are selfish and that I'm one of their tools to get to the next step of their plan.

    "suspect others of hypocrisy and cheating and putting on appearances aimed at exploiting people's credulity--especially hypocrisy inherent in social institutions."

    If it someone I don't know well, none of those qualities come as a surprise. :-/
    I 65.63% E 34.38%
    S 68.75% N 31.25%
    T 87.1% F 12.9%
    P 66.67% J 33.33%

  8. #8
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post
    Yes and no. Most of the time I assume people are as honest and frank as I am until proven otherwise. However, I usually think people are selfish and that I'm one of their tools to get to the next step of their plan.

    "suspect others of hypocrisy and cheating and putting on appearances aimed at exploiting people's credulity--especially hypocrisy inherent in social institutions."

    If it someone I don't know well, none of those qualities come as a surprise. :-/
    Upon reading your response, I had to review the original description again and quite agree with it from my past experiences, even the statement, “Sometimes ISPs draw upon Ni to find ways to throw a monkey wrench into social systems that call them into some kind of obligation to respond in ways that don't make sense within the system's explicitly stated ways of interpreting behavior as cooperative or hostile (but are indeed hostile).”

    I do this on an unconscious level, resulting in some form of unwanted and unsolicited obligation being thrown upon me. Wow, I will have to process this last part, which may be a constant unhealthy cycle for me. Nevertheless, McMartinez makes good points that tie into the description that I posted here on the Artisan/Improviser temperament in general:
    In the Artisan temperament pattern, attention is paid first to what an individual “gets” out of a situation. Motives are the reasons people do things. They must be paid attention to in order to get the desired results. Knowing a person’s motives provides people expressing Artisan cues to freely respond as the other person pursues his or her wants or needs.

    People expressing Artisan can be cynical about human motives… they harbor no illusions about people being noble or saintly – “come off it”, says the archetypal Artisan, no matter how virtuous we think ourselves, we all have feet of clay, we are all ultimately corruptible and self-serving. (When the Artisan and Rational patterns are expressed together, the result can be especially sardonic, as the cynicism associated with the Artisan pattern and the skepticism associated with the Rational pattern can feed upon one another).

    Although this focus on Motives is shared with the Idealist pattern, the interpretation of motivations by someone expressing Artisan is more down-to-earth than by someone expressing Idealist. Viewed through the Artisan pattern, people’s motives might be a source of suspicion, but viewed through the Idealist pattern, motives express the unique identities of individuals.
    As an ISTP, the Ni-Fe is my poor mirroring to INFJ and most likely ESTP (Fe-Ni) to ENFJ.

  9. #9
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    Yep, I do this. I actually get off on this especially Judgers. It's like all of a sudden, that little street cat becomes a gigantic sabertooth tiger shadowing 100 feet tall over that little ENTJ or ISTJ.

  10. #10
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Do you think this behavior is being arbitrarily pinned to "Ni" without justification?

    Can the root of this behavior really be pinned to anything? Or is it more of a combination, an anomaly, that can't be analyzed with personality theories?

    I think it might have something to do with the combination of Ni + Fe. If this is true, INJs wouldn't display this behavior, because they don't have the Fe. I can think of one instance where there might be an exception to this. INFJs can get pretty judgmental at times (no offense, Nightning), and are known for their propensity for stirring shit up if they believe in the cause. The difference lies in their motivations. Whereas INFJs would only start a fight if they believe in the cause, ISPs would start a fight just to start a fight.

    I, for one, do identify with the statement, and will occasionally make an effort to point out people's hypocrisy. Sometimes I can also be pretty confrontational, and I absolutely hate people who infringe on my personal liberty without a justification. If I were to join the military, I'm pretty sure I would either get kicked out or go AWOL.

    I've seen my sister display this behavior, too, which helps solidify my opinion that she is ISFP.

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