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  1. #21
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Yeah.


    Sigh.
    MAYBE (and I stress this maybe) she'd hoped for some ISTP baby Fe.



    Is that what you balk at?

  2. #22
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    @Giggly

    lol, I do not doubt for a second that is what she wanted from me.

    I balk because everything I felt that could of been said cheapened the truth of what I was feeling. I don't think I said anything to her apart from I love you. What compares?

    She later told me anything running through my mind was likely something she needed to hear =/ Live and learn, I reckon.

  3. #23
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    @Giggly

    lol, I do not doubt for a second that is what she wanted from me.

    I balk because everything I felt that could of been said cheapened the truth of what I was feeling. I don't think I said anything to her apart from I love you. What compares?

    She later told me anything running through my mind was likely something she needed to hear =/ Live and learn, I reckon.
    Ahh yes.

  4. #24
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    I guess it depends on the person, fortunately I have had a few authority figures that respected me enough to tell me that I didn't have to let people cling to me just to prove that I'm trustworthy while I have met some that can kiss my butt for giving who showed little interest the more involved tasks to do to cover up unadulterated laziness for mentoring who was actually interested in developing their skills a step further

  5. #25
    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    I'm married to an ISTP, and being really duty-driven myself, I cannot wrap my head around his reaction to basic expectations (if someone who rarely cries is bawling, hug them. If a baby is crying, pick it up. If someone says, "hi", saying "hi" back is generally considered polite. That kind of thing.)

    Is my husband just a royal jackass? Or is there some element I'm not taking into account here? A reasonable side that could be appealed to? I'm generally willing to lower my expectations, but it seems like no matter how far they're lowered, it gets taken down a rung or two further.

    What I'm sure feels to him is logical energy conservation seems downright inconsiderate and cold to me. To the point that I'm getting fairly bitter about it. It's possible I'm being a jackass about it, and not realizing.

    These things don't come naturally to me at all either. I would feel awkward in these situations described and i often feel socially inept.

  6. #26
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    My ex-ISTP was horrifically bad at comforting me when I was not in his presence. It's part of what led to our end. In person however he was a sucker for those in pain. The trick is, it seemed like the pain had to be something he had experienced himself.

    He once described himself as lacking empathy. It took a long time for me to discover exactly what he meant by that.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Expectations that appear basic are generally cultural creations. When people exhibit total disregard, use force, or lack awareness of what's around them (in social contexts), however, I think that is nearly*-universally negative because it demonstrates total self-absorbtion which nobody could possibly negotiate with. The latter is not what this post is about.

    If you extend your implicit, unstated, expectations to other people, and they have different beliefs or experience, it's unlikely they will respond to your expectations the way you hoped. There isn't anything wrong with that person, persay. They have a different belief. Or experience.

    If you communicate what your expectation is, then you can at least begin to negotiate with that person. Maybe they will simply go along with what you want once you talk to them about it. Maybe they will find it unappealing, but you can convince them. Maybe they'll find it to be a great idea. Maybe they have beliefs that conflict with your expectation.

    Maybe they will have a belief you find different but can respect. Maybe they will have a belief you find weird and silly. Maybe they will have a belief that is repugnant.

    But if you have an expectation or desire it should be communicated, because how else will the other person know? What seems obvious to one person is probably only obvious because they have a background of experience which emphasizes some aspect of outward reality, which can be interpreted in a multitude of ways. Unless you ask, how can they give consent?

    *some cultures/indivduals may believe it is acceptable to focus solely on self, that only the strong should survive (might makes right), and that what the people around them think/want is unimportant. Hence, "nearly" universal.



    TL;DR: by communicating your desires you can open the doors to negotiation, a step that is necessary because desires are not always obvious, and by having the other person's consent you are building a relationship based on respect for the other persons will/preference.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #28
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    ISTPs are atrocious irresponcible no-good trouble-makers who deserve to be slapped and banned from all adventures and activities that threaten the stability of our great social order!

  9. #29
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    It depends on "basic". I'm humane, I think. I'm not going to let people bleed to death in front of me. And I think just about all SPs have enough sense of humor or "life" that they aren't totally socially inept. I'm not like some cop, hating on everything and taking myself too seriously. And I understand basic "fails" in social interaction. I have enough Se to see if a guy in a room is being an idiot or saying all the wrong things to some girls, for example (or anyone really). There's probably some Fe awareness there. I won't do anything about it, but I'll laugh to myself at least. I'm aware enough to not repeat his mistakes. I don't know what it is, but they're things that many SPs probably all pick up on and prevents them from looking as dull or inappropriate. Sometimes. One thing that's gotten me in trouble is I don't go to funerals. I'm also not going to sit around a hospital bed either and show "support" 24/7 to someone who isn't even conscious. Maybe some think that's selfish, but it doesn't makes any sense to me. Once "expectations" lose any practical purpose, then I'm confused.

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