[ISTP] How do I motivate my ISTP son?

[sinnamon]

I will try to keep this short, but suffice to say that my incredibly gifted son is about to blow his opportunities, & I can't seem to do anything to make any difference. He won't do any homework, & his grades are going into the shitter.

We have grounded him, taken away the computer, the TV, every damn thing he cares about & that he obssesses over to the point that he doesn't do his work. But I swear, that kid is so very S that even if it's something that he was absolutely obssessed about for months, once it's not there, he doesn't miss it. I could put him in a room with nothing but a bare floor & he would make shadow puppets on the wall.

I've also offered rewards for specific short term goals, like "if you don't get any zeros this week & you don't get into any trouble, this weekend you can _______." Still, he usually can't even get through 5 days.

I'm trying to be aware that he is just a kid (12 in the 8th grade), but he already has some serious programs looking at him because his ACT score in the 7th grade was already a 21. His math grade actually goes on his high school transcript starting this year. His father & I can't afford to send him to some out-of-state ivy league college, but he could easily go if he gets his shit together.

Everyone else in the house is an XNXX (ENFJ, INTP, ENTP), & we just can't relate to his way of thinking. I grew up in a home where I was the alien. I want to help him succeed at the same time that I let him be free to be who he is as an individual.

Any ISTPs or people who love them that have some insight?

 

[miss fortune]

my aunt always motivates my ISTP uncle to do something by questioning his competence- like if she wants the car fixed and he doesn't feel like doing it she'll question whether he actually can fix the car and he gets insulted and fixes the car!

 

[cafe]

OMG whatever! That's how I used to motivate my older son to do his school work. He'd say it was too hard and I'd find the easiest problem on the page and start going on about how 2+2 was too hard for him to figure out and that I didn't think he could do it. After doing that a few times he'd decide it wasn't really that hard and do the rest on his own. I don't know what type he is, but I think he's a TJ because once he gets going on something he usually finishes it.

sinnamon, if your son was older, I'd suggest making him work at McDonald's for awhile.

 

[cdal233]

My ISTP brother had some problems doing his homework and caring when he was in elementary and middle school. He always knew he was smart but he never did his homework, and was proud of that.

I was a year ahead of him, and I convinced him to try to get into the honors programs for high school. My motivation that I was giving him were that the honors classes were, in many ways, easier. For example, at my school the teachers of honors classes tend to give the majority of their students A's and B's... whereas the regular classes give their students a more realistic distribution. This, coupled with the fact that the honors classes are weighted higher (ie A = 5.0, B = 4.0 etc) made it an easy sell, and he convinced his Biology and English teachers to put him in the honors track (he was already there for Geometry)

So he entered high school with as many honors classes as he cold get, under the mentality it was easier. Then once in high school, we basically treated it like a game with each other to see how low of a B we could get (which is essentially an 'A' in a regular class). The teachers in the honors classes are retarded... they think that since all the kids are gifted, they wouldn't dare ruin the hard-working kids dreams by giving them C's if they are trying... so the secret is to convince the teachers you care... and you can be in the bottom 20% of the class and pull it off (at least at my school).

After freshman year, he had realized that the honors classes really are easier to get a good grade, as he got a 'C' in a regularly weighted class, where the teacher gave less attention to the students who give the image of trying. Now that this was cemented in his thinking, it was a no-brainer to stay in honors classes.

He ended up graduating with a 4.2.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

 

[sinnamon]

[/QUOTE]

Simple, sensory, direct. I think you may be onto something.

 

[Maverick]

Any ISTPs or people who love them that have some insight?

Do not remove his stimulations or provide rewards. Let him make the decisions. Show him what he can obtain if he studies well and how he can end up if he doesn't. Try this and see if it works.

 

[rhinosaur]

Do not remove his stimulations or provide rewards. Let him make the decisions. Show him what he can obtain if he studies well and how he can end up if he doesn't. Try this and see if it works.

I think this is the right way to go. You have to guide him to *want* to do his work. Negative punishment doesn't work too well on ISTPs -- we resent it and push back even harder.

 

[alicia91]

Roll up your windows, lock the doors and take a drive through the slummiest part of your city. And say 'this is your life - 10 years from now if you don't get it together.' Works well for all different types (especially the visual ones). Also make him volunteer to serve meals at the soup kitchen. My son was mortified that a family went their for their 5 year-old son's birthday dinner. Gives them a whole new perspective. Your son might be a bit young, but by 14 or so it might work.

 

[sinnamon]

Do not remove his stimulations or provide rewards. Let him make the decisions. Show him what he can obtain if he studies well and how he can end up if he doesn't. Try this and see if it works.

I think this is the right way to go. You have to guide him to *want* to do his work. Negative punishment doesn't work too well on ISTPs -- we resent it and push back even harder.

OK, I can see the logic in this. One thing for sure, all this stuff I keep reading about no amount of punishment or reward will make an ISTP do something -- fits him to a T. When I confront him about problem behavior he just stares at me. I know that he is making a conscious effort to be unaffected by punishment or reward because he is passively-agressively stubborn. I have no desire to win a battle of wills with him. I could win that battle & lose the war in this situation.

One complication with your suggestions is that he has no self-control or self-restriction. For instance, if he is allowed computer time during the week, he will stay on the computer non-stop for hours & not do his homework. If I say he can have X amount of TV or computer time after he finishes his work, he will do a half-assed job & rush to the computer.

I am starting to see that the key is to letting him be a part of the decision-making process, but since he's 12 years old, he still needs some external restrictions. Making D's should not be an option he is allowed to make.

Any specific practical suggestions for these scenarios?

Cafe I am inclined to agree with you about McD's.

 

[Randomnity]

My parents tried the whole punishment thing with me....totally useless. I didn't like being forced into things so I just took the punishment. They did manage to force me to get a job in grade 12 though by saying that if I didn't, they'd kick me out (and I believed them). Ultimately I appreciated it, but I definitely resented that for a while. They didn't try rewards but I don't think that would have worked either. Hmm...what did work?

-my parents told me from a young age that they couldn't afford to send me to school and I'd need good enough grades for scholarships if I wanted to go
-I wanted to be a vet for a while and I knew I needed good grades for that
-more than anything it was just that I felt bad when I got a bad mark so I put in enough effort to not do badly but not a bit more than the minimum needed....

I guess I can't say much other than in my experience ISTPs are hard to motivate externally, they have to want to do it first....so if there is no internal motivation, I'm not really sure what you can do. Just make sure he's aware of what, realistically, he needs to do in order to get where he wants to in life....but really, at 12, that's still a long way off from mattering. It's only in the last few years of high school that it'll matter, and then only marginally.

Edit to add: something to watch out for, if you try to scare him or exaggerate and tell him something like he'll be working at McDonalds for the rest of his life if he doesnt get straight As, he'll know you're full of it and then won't take anything you say seriously. Be realistic in your assessments and he'll be more likely to believe you...or at least that's how I am.

 

[alicia91]

I guess I can't say much other than in my experience ISTPs are hard to motivate externally, they have to want to do it first....so if there is no internal motivation, I'm not really sure what you can do. Just make sure he's aware of what, realistically, he needs to do in order to get where he wants to in life....but really, at 12, that's still a long way off from mattering. It's only in the last few years of high school that it'll matter, and then only marginally.

I guess this is really my point also. YOU probably won't be successful by trying to micro-manage him into being motivated - HE has to realize it himself and WANT it. Where does he want to end up? flipping burgers, skid row, successful with money in the bank? Give him a few years - then just point out the realities - SHOW him the realities.

 

[ygolo]

I generally agree with having him understand why its important.

He may also be bored beyond belief. Maybe he needs more of a challenge.

Motivation is the last think I can give advise about, but maybe you can get him motivated enough to stay in the "B+" range alone.

You also mentioned him going to "Ivy League Schools," etc. I think for any 12 year-old, knowing your parents have those sort of expectations can be a bit much. He may be smart enough, but he still has a few years yet.

Perhaps you can also reassure him that he will still be allowed to be a kid. That it is not an either-or thing. He doesn't have to study all the time and not play any more than he has to play all the time and not study.

 

[Jae Rae]

My parents tried the whole punishment thing with me....totally useless. I didn't like being forced into things so I just took the punishment. They did manage to force me to get a job in grade 12 though by saying that if I didn't, they'd kick me out (and I believed them). Ultimately I appreciated it, but I definitely resented that for a while. They didn't try rewards but I don't think that would have worked either. Hmm...what did work?

-my parents told me from a young age that they couldn't afford to send me to school and I'd need good enough grades for scholarships if I wanted to go
-I wanted to be a vet for a while and I knew I needed good grades for that
-more than anything it was just that I felt bad when I got a bad mark so I put in enough effort to not do badly but not a bit more than the minimum needed....

I guess I can't say much other than in my experience ISTPs are hard to motivate externally, they have to want to do it first....so if there is no internal motivation, I'm not really sure what you can do. Just make sure he's aware of what, realistically, he needs to do in order to get where he wants to in life....but really, at 12, that's still a long way off from mattering. It's only in the last few years of high school that it'll matter, and then only marginally.

My husband's cousin has a fourteen year-old son, an ISTP into baseball, scouting, gaming and listening to rock music. Last year his grades dropped precipitously. His mom and dad took away all electronics, but let him play baseball and go to scouts. His grades rose and have stayed up. It worked because they made computer use contingent on his getting decent grades.

He's into Led Zeppelin and wanted to paint his room black, which they didn't allow, and he has very long bangs that hang into his eyes, which also bugs his parents. Now thanks to his being a pitcher, he'll have to cut them. "Pick your battles" is a wise parenting strategy and often Life decides things for us.

You're worried about a bright kid who's not trying hard, but many kids, especially boys, don't get the point of school or college until much later than their parents would like. If you have a minimum expectation (all Bs) and he meets them, he gets his privileges. If he doesn't and you're convinced he could, take away something that matters. I know you said he'd be happy in an empty room, but you can probably think of something that he'd miss.

Reality-testing in the form of having a low-paying job or volunteering in a soup kitchen could work, but those would involve projecting himself into the future, something 12 year-old boys aren't known for doing well.

Good luck...

Jae Rae

 

[Nocapszy]

He is motivated. Internally. You can't see him doing work, but he is.

 

[rhinosaur]

Any specific practical suggestions for these scenarios?

Unfortunately, I'm drawing a blank. The environment in my home and school was one of "failure is not an option," with "failure" defined as not trying your hardest in everything you do. I never really considered dropping out, and even if I had, I probably still would have attempted to make straight A's until the day I decided to not show up anymore. All-or-nothing.

I think I do have some advice, after all. Don't try manipulative shit, like reverse psychology or subtle inflections of tone. If you want him to change, sit him down and have an open honest conversation about why you think keeping his grades up will be beneficial. And most importantly, be honest about your emotions! I think he will appreciate that.

 

[nightning]

You need a better reward I think... A reward that is self derived... He needs to want to do well.

I agree with what other people have said already. Find him classes and school work that he deems challenging enough to worth his time to tackle. Also have a chat with him to see where his interests lies.

Good luck with that.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

... Deja Vu much?

 

[sinnamon]

... Deja Vu much?

Well ahem. I thought I'd come to a place where there actually might be some ISTPs.

I started to just link the discussion, but I thought there might be rules about that kind of thing, & it's not like I was actually going to go look for & read rules to figure that out -- just N my way around to compensate for my innate laziness.

 

[INTJMom]

...
Everyone else in the house is an XNXX (ENFJ, INTP, ENTP), & we just can't relate to his way of thinking. I grew up in a home where I was the alien. I want to help him succeed at the same time that I let him be free to be who he is as an individual.

Any ISTPs or people who love them that have some insight?

You got some excellent responses.

I have a 21 year old ISTJ daughter, 17 year old ISTP son, and a 14 year old ENFJ son.

Have you seen the book, Nurture By Nature? I think there might be some helpful suggestions and insights in there for you. It's been a great tool in helping me understand my kids better.

When my ISTP was about your son's age, he did the most curious thing. He asked me if he was allowed to get Cs and Ds. I told him in no uncertain terms that he most certainly was not! Apparently that was enough for him and he set his own standard of getting mostly Bs in school. I have no idea what I would do in your shoes, but I do understand how frustrating it is.

Like your son, mine is bright, but they just hate applying themselves to school work. My son is foremostly a "hands-on" learner so sitting and listening to lectures can be absolute torture for him.

I'm a little confused because I thought taking away privileges works. I just consulted with my son and he says that if I took away his privileges because of bad grades, he would "just get madder and do worse". I asked him what he thought would work and he shrugged.

This wouldn't be easy to do, but if you can show him how getting good grades will help him reach his goals, or have a practical application in his life, it will probably help. My son often makes comments about learning "stupid" things that he can't use in real life. Learning needs to be practical.

My son wants to be a professional skateboarder, so I feel your pain.

But he's also willing, at this point, to go to a technical school and get some hands-on training, though he doesn't know what he wants to do.

I wish you good success.