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  1. #21
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't see a problem with attaching a "cultural personality" to a country.

    See, the national personality is not derived directly as the "sum of its parts" where "parts" = individuals.

    What contributes to national personality is its actual history, its past and current interactions with other nations and how it fits into the larger world culture/economy, its own economic and political systems, the religious faiths that are prominent, its view and support of science/tech, etc.

    Those are the "components" of the national personality, and individuals regardless of type might influence these things over time but usually are forced to conform to some degree.
    I'd essentially agree to this. Furthermore I would add that I think certain personality traits are socially reinforced as either "good" or "bad" depending on the culture. For example I would see introversion as positively reinforced in Japan while extraversion is positively reinforced in Italy. This doesn't mean that the percentages of introverts or extraverts are significantly different in either country, but it might mean that extraverts are encouraged to be more subdued in Japan while introverts are encouraged to be more outgoing in Italy.

    I would say over the last 50-75 years in the US alone we have see a gradual shift from SJ behavior/attitudes to SP attitudes.
    I'd actually say the opposite. The western frontier is an SP ideal. It represents freedom and a lack of order. Furthermore during WWII American soldiers were praised for their ability to improvise and get equipment repaired quickly on the move instead of waiting for things to be done in an official procedure. These are SP traits, and Americans stood out from Europeans because of these traits. Now that there is no more land (on Earth) to explore and conquer, and our current states are all largely industrialized I think the SP dream has essentially dried up. Furthermore having the most wealth and military power has driven the US towards more conservative SJ behavior so that we will preserve what we have.

    What would you ENTPs do without straw men?
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  2. #22
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    ENFPs are way too nice and cuddly to do that.
    ESFPs are even less likely, but she did it. Not all ENFPs (I know... my brother is a good example among a few others) would have a problem stuffing a squirrel into a bee-hive or tying a cat to the roof of a car on a whim, despite what you'd like to think about your nature.

    Just look at Michael Scott from the office. He's an amazingly self-centered, narcissistic, but still caring person. He's an ENFP.
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  3. #23
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    Probably not an N. I find it very hard to visualize. In art class, I can only draw still life.
    Well, I can't draw anything at all. Doesn't make me more N or S. One class doesn't prove anything.
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  4. #24

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    Sure type me I have no idea what I am. My INFP friend insists I'm an ENFP.

  5. #25
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    What would you INTJ's do if you had to actually explain yourselves instead of making blanket statements which are meaningless without further elaboration?
    Objectively, culture is behavioral adaptations to a region. Historically human mobility was limited, hence various cultures arose in relative isolation. In modern times, the "region" has become the planet and local-area adaptations are being combined or pared accordingly.

    People tend to think of their area's historical culture as not a system of adaptations but rather a unique spirit that sets their "in-group" apart from the "them" of the world. A cursory flip through a newspaper will provide many examples of the problems this presents in modern times.

    Regardless of what "cultural" ideals any given country or region pays lip service to, walk into an office and you're going to find EPs running sales, IJs handling planning and administration, and EJs largely filling the ranks of management.

    To cite a specific example, while Japan does tend to pay greater lip service to introvert-friendly ways of thinking (as CzeCze points out), in any public school it's still the same hand-raising, oral reporting, 40-kids-stuffed-into-a-room environment you'd find in America or Italy.

    I suppose, if you were looking for a snappy one-liner, you could say that "culture" is the ideals a group of people pay lip service to, regardless of the reality.

  6. #26

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    It's not MBTI but there were some differences supposedly between U.S. and Finish small bussiness owners.

    KIMMO HYRSKY AND MIKA TUUNANEN
    Innovativeness and Risk-taking Propensity: A Cross-Cultural Study of Finnish and U.S. Entrepreneurs and Small Business Owners

    ABSTRACT
    The present study centers on innovativeness and risk-taking. These two personality traits are among the most distinctive entrepreneurial characteristics. They provide a good starting point for a comparison
    of entrepreneurial behaviour between Finnish and U.S. entrepreneurs and small business owners. The Carland Entrepreneurship Index (CEI) was employed to measure the varying degrees of innovativeness
    and risk-taking displayed by Finnish and U.S. entrepreneurs and small business owners. The Americans (N=456) had greater risk-taking propensity than the Finns (N=434) who tended to be more conservative and risk-averse. Americans also exhibited slightly higher levels of innovation. Regarding gender, in the combined Finnish and U.S. sample, females had higher levels of innovation preference than the males. Meanwhile, male respondents scored significantly higher on risk-taking. In both countries respondents with detailed business plans had much higher risk-taking propensity and preference
    for innovation than those with no detailed plans. Finally, profit and growth oriented informants in both countries scored higher on both scales compared to those oriented to earning family income.
    http://lta.hse.fi/1999/3/lta_1999_03_a2.pdf(A pdf--you are warned)

    The t-tests on the innovation metric they were using showed significant differences for Finish and U.S. founders. Also, the t-tests on the risk-taking scores showed significant differences between U.S. and Finish small business owners in general.

    Of course, this doesn't mean anything for individual Finns or Americans. It may also not indicate anything fundamental. But there do seem to be some significant differences in culture here.

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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    I'm an ASIAN ESTP! And sometimes I laugh to myself merrily about it, for the irony of being born into a society of dominant "I" "S" and "J"s.

    Meet my Dad, typical Asian lawyer, working in a prestigious law firm. Typical conversations with him will be "How are your studies girl?" "What are you doing tomorrow?" "Sleep early, or you'll get a tight slap" (Happened to me when I was a kid I got spanked alot And yes, he still talks to me like that sometimes! DO IT OR ELSE)

    Then there's my Mum, who came from a less educated background from my Dad, where she grew up in a tiny tribal village in Taiwan. Mum's an ESFP I think, and she's always talking about makeup, how to look pretty, and marrying young.
    I know what you mean. I have friends from Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, China, Korea... One is from a Japanese-American family. He's an ExFP and has a really hard time communicating with his family (I'm pretty sure his mom is an _NTJ).

    One former roommate is from a Japanese-American family and grew up in Japan. Her first year at university in the US she was SO QUIET! I felt like a bull in a china shop in our room--and I'm an introvert. I never really felt like we connected at all while rooming together, but the longer she was there the more she's opened up. Now I'm prepping to be in her wedding soon.


    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum View Post
    This only happened 1 and a half years ago when I moved to Melbourne, where I became a Christian and went to the punkiest church you can find, Planetshakers
    Whoo hoo! Yay for cool churches. I love my home church.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    It's not MBTI but there were some differences supposedly between U.S. and Finish small bussiness owners.



    http://lta.hse.fi/1999/3/lta_1999_03_a2.pdf(A pdf--you are warned)

    The t-tests on the innovation metric they were using showed significant differences for Finish and U.S. founders. Also, the t-tests on the risk-taking scores showed significant differences between U.S. and Finish small business owners in general.

    Of course, this doesn't mean anything for individual Finns or Americans. It may also not indicate anything fundamental. But there do seem to be some significant differences in culture here.

    Hmm... that's really interesting. Especially since I was raised in the only place in the US where a significant portion of the population is of Finn descent (my family's English/Prussian-American and not originally from here). I would definitely say that the cultural "attitude"/personality is significantly different here from the rest of the US and has been strongly impacted by the Finn-descended population.

  9. #29
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    Yeah. I heard Asians were mostly INTPs.
    Where in the STARS did you get that notion?
    Now I wonder why I had such a lousy time growing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by hungrypossum
    During a social studies test, we were given a cartoon of Singaporeans queueing up to reach a buffet table and asked to comment on the country's cultural identity. Now, in that picture I could see individuals pushing each other to get to the food.

    So I wrote that Singaporeans are competitive, and afraid to lose to one another even in trivial matters. I got a big fat C.
    It's obvious why you got a C if your teacher was a Singaporean, isn't it?
    Humans. Sigh...

    To cite a specific example, while Japan does tend to pay greater lip service to introvert-friendly ways of thinking (as CzeCze points out), in any public school it's still the same hand-raising, oral reporting, 40-kids-stuffed-into-a-room environment you'd find in America or Italy.
    Somehow I think SJs end up being the majority in most places, whether they're introverted or extraverted.

  10. #30
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    I give him 9 posts.
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