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  1. #11
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    Then you do not fit even Keirsey's basic utilitarian v. cooperative style of handling materials. Based on temperament, the average NF or SJ would never consider taking apart their toys. They're just not that utilitarian. They would also rather have a clean vehicle that sometimes run, as opposed to an ugly dirty vehicle that gets them from point A to B.
    I was usually forever in the garage taking stuff apart, my dad would come home and freak out about how I was allowed into the garage again. My mom would always reply with "well tell him to put it back together". He never thought I could till she made me do it and I proved him wrong. They split when I was 4, never really had much to do with him growing up and when I did he was always on my case about finding a job in an office where I stayed "clean". He never seemed to like that aspect of my personality.

    Now that I'm a lot older and working for him, he likes the fact I can do all the Electrical, Maintenance, and mechanical repairs that need to be done since it saves him the service calls that cost $100+ an hr. He doesn't like it when I bring up his behavior towards it in the past tho

    On the alternate side, I do a lot of the administration work, and I pretty much run the company since he only shows up once a week, I'm also usually left to handle all the business affairs and politics and at times I'm forever in meetings. This aspect of the job I don't really like but I'm good at it so I'm more or less forced to do it since he knows I can. I always strive for a balance where both parties are left feeling good about the outcome. I loathe management duties where I have to discipline anyone as the thought of anyone being hurt in anyway by it is very unappealing to me.

    As for cars, well I prefer mine to look somewhat plain I love the "sleeper" mentality when it comes to cars, I'm not one for really dressing them up just for looks and any modifications I do always have a utilitarian purpose to them, it's lowered for handling purposes, tinted to keep it cool inside and not destroy the leather etc. I try and keep the outside clean and get annoyed with imperfections in the paint, but the inside is victim to my NF pack rat nature, the back seat in my car is currently unuseable theres way too much stuff back there.. I not only keep it running but I'm forever messing with the way it runs, I have a laptop in my car I use to reprogram everything from the injector timing to shift points and shift pressures which are all custom to the way I like it. I also have it debadged and removed any and all signs that point to it being anything but the base model of the car, and not the hopped up supercharged paddle shifters on the steering wheel version it really is. Then again, before my current car all my others were ones I bought for $500 or less that I never really cared what they looked like just as long as they ran. I chose this car because it's a 4 door family car that if the need ever arises I wouldn't need to get rid of it. It's got 3 anchor points in the back for child seats, I can fit a 9' Kayak in it and close the trunk, and when I want I can dust off 90% of the lil boys in their hopped up Hondas with 50000 stickers and a shopping cart handle for a rear spoiler on the back.

    I'd take a Cadillac STS-V over a Corvette any day of the week.

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    With all due respect, how the did you ever come up with INFP? One thing that I may add is that SPs are not good at improvising, they PREFER TO IMPROVISE as a core value, as much as Theorists (NT) types prefer to know and master something before taking action.
    It's the way I am when I deal with other people. Especially towards whoever I'm dating. I'm very much the touchy feely, would much rather curl up with someone then just be around them, driven by my deep running emotions, thrives on the happiness of others, puts other's needs before my own, dislikes being the center of attention, shy at first, fiercely loyal when committed, treats sex as a bonding experience, absentminded, always got a dozen different projects on the go, hopeless packrat, type of person.

    I could care less about how much money I could be making if it involves doing something I don't enjoy, I could care less about celebrities and have never had a crush on any of them based on their looks. You could show me a picture of some woman that a lot of guys drool all over and I'd just shrug my shoulders since theres no emotional or mental connection drawing me towards them.

    I fit the INFP profile to a T when it comes to how I interact with other people. It's just outside of dealing with people I tend to take on a stereotype that doesn't seem to fit an INFP at all.

    I guess you could say I'm more of an IXXP then anything if you look at it all as a whole.


    Edit: The results from the Enneagram test I took a while back.

    Type 1, The Reformer: 8
    Type 2, The Helper: 14
    Type 3, The Achiever: 14
    Type 4, The Individualist: 20
    Type 5, The Investigator: 24
    Type 6, The Loyalist: 12
    Type 7, The Enthusiast: 24
    Type 8, The Challenger: 6
    Type 9, The Peacemaker: 22
    Last edited by Ender; 02-09-2008 at 06:18 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Fe/Fi 36.9/37.7
    Ne/Ni 34.9/25.8
    Se/Si 25.7/19.5
    Te/Ti 28.4/31.9
    Type: 2w% sx/sp/so

    I don't want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

    Never take life to seriously.. No one gets out alive in the end anyway.

  2. #12
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    I'm still on the fence between ISTP/ISFP, and I relate very well to both. My thinking style might be more ISTP but the descriptions sound NOTHING like me - mechanical, explosives , dare-devil (OK, I like rollercoasters), and I relate much better to the ISFP descriptions. Or I'm just a mix and should keep the X in that spot!
    I think it is really good you are thinking about being an ISTP, which I rather think you are than an ISFP. Remember, when it comes to MBTI, your type is how you think, not how you act.

    As ISTP - Introverted Thinking with Sensing states: "There are dramatic gender differences between male and female ISTPs." Most ISTP profiles are written about how male ISTPs are, so don't focus too much on it.

  3. #13
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    Yes, I'm still thinking about ISTP versus ISFP. I seriously can't come to a conclusion about it.

    One thing that I may add is that SPs are not good at improvising, they PREFER TO IMPROVISE as a core value, as much as Theorists (NT) types prefer to know and master something before taking action.
    What do you mean by this?

    I'm NOT an improviser - it makes me really nervous to have to do that. I tend to research on the net or read books on how to do just about anything. See, I'm not naturally good at being organized or figuring out things so I have to work things out in advance. Some of my biggest mistakes have come from being unprepared and unsuccessfully trying to wing-it.

    I also have no interest in taking things apart and learning how they work. I do have a strong interest in improving things - mostly in terms of aesthetics.

  4. #14
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    ...
    I'm NOT an improviser - it makes me really nervous to have to do that. I tend to research on the net or read books on how to do just about anything. See, I'm not naturally good at being organized or figuring out things so I have to work things out in advance. Some of my biggest mistakes have come from being unprepared and unsuccessfully trying to wing-it.

    I also have no interest in taking things apart and learning how they work. I do have a strong interest in improving things - mostly in terms of aesthetics.
    Doesn't that make you a J?

  5. #15
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    I'm about 60/40 P versus J so I have a lot of J but not enough to BE a J. I'm really not SJ - it's a worse fit overall than SP. Actually the only trait that I'm not close to the center on is "S" - which is probably why I'm having so much trouble figuring out my type.

    I'm about 55/45 - I versus E
    75/25 - S versus N
    50/50 - T versus F (just depends on the test)
    60/40 - P versus J

    So maybe MBTI isn't very useful for someone like me?

    Back to the T versus N issue - my ENTJ husband thinks I'm very high-maintenace in the emotions department (need reassurance etc.) but perhaps anyone would compared to an NT?

    But I'd be very curious to read more about female ISTPs or anyone whose not mechanical or interested in how things work. I'm also not very adventuresome.........so perhaps ISTP is out?

    Part of what is so difficult in this is that the theory seems to believe that we stick with what comes naturally even if it's a weakness that we get negative feedback from. Yeah, my natural style is to make a big effort to organize and start-up a project, then once the ball is rolling I tend to forget about it and then scramble at the end and often times I fail because of it (the end result wasn't as good). So I learned early on that I need to be more methodical and pay more attention to my ongoing project, and it I do this the overall end result is a greater level of success. So therefore I now read instructions, pay more attention to ongoing projects, and stick with things. Another personal example is that I used to be horrible with money and basically got myself into terrible debts and almost had to declare personal bankruptcy, had bad credit, etc. So I learned from that and am now super-careful with money, am good at investments, heck people come to me for money managment advice! And to do all of this takes a tremendous effort because it doesn't come naturally - but it's worth it! So is it what I 'do' that counts or what comes naturally?

    Oops - got way off topic here!

  6. #16
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    I'm about 55/45 - I versus E
    75/25 - S versus N
    50/50 - T versus F (just depends on the test)
    60/40 - P versus J

    So maybe MBTI isn't very useful for someone like me?
    Not just you. I started a thread on this subject that introverted types actually can be hindered by too much introspection when taking the forced choice test. Furthermore, it's easy for NJ types in particular to confuse forced choice questions of J-ness with sensing and vice-versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Back to the T versus N issue - my ENTJ husband thinks I'm very high-maintenace in the emotions department (need reassurance etc.) but perhaps anyone would compared to an NT?
    Arrgghhh..... MBTI does not measure emotions, only cognitions. Whether you are emotionally "high maintenance" has no bearing on type.
    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    But I'd be very curious to read more about female ISTPs or anyone whose not mechanical or interested in how things work. I'm also not very adventuresome.........so perhaps ISTP is out?
    The only thing that I can say in this capacity is one of the first things l learned about type is that when there is confusion along the T/F lines, it's usually an indication that you are allowing social norms and expectations of gender to play a role. As such, males usually are F and females T.
    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Part of what is so difficult in this is that the theory seems to believe that we stick with what comes naturally even if it's a weakness that we get negative feedback from.
    We do, as does most introverts. The auxilary can be used in defense, rendering us doing only what we know and limiting our experiences. Yet, this only says that you most likely prefer introversion and possibly using your auxilary in defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    Yeah, my natural style is to make a big effort to organize and start-up a project, then once the ball is rolling I tend to forget about it and then scramble at the end and often times I fail because of it (the end result wasn't as good). So I learned early on that I need to be more methodical and pay more attention to my ongoing project, and it I do this the overall end result is a greater level of success. So therefore I now read instructions, pay more attention to ongoing projects, and stick with things. Another personal example is that I used to be horrible with money and basically got myself into terrible debts and almost had to declare personal bankruptcy, had bad credit, etc. So I learned from that and am now super-careful with money, am good at investments, heck people come to me for money managment advice! And to do all of this takes a tremendous effort because it doesn't come naturally - but it's worth it! So is it what I 'do' that counts or what comes naturally?
    Uhhh, this sounds INT. It could go either way (INTJ with poor usage of Te or INTP attempting to use the Te). Maybe your age could be a tell-tale sign, however I am in agreement with "Mom" on the j-ness. It appears that you are most likely confusing sensing answers with j-ness on the forced choice questions, thus could be INJ or INP.

  7. #17
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicia91 View Post
    What do you mean by this?

    I'm NOT an improviser - it makes me really nervous to have to do that. I tend to research on the net or read books on how to do just about anything. See, I'm not naturally good at being organized or figuring out things so I have to work things out in advance. Some of my biggest mistakes have come from being unprepared and unsuccessfully trying to wing-it.

    I also have no interest in taking things apart and learning how they work. I do have a strong interest in improving things - mostly in terms of aesthetics.
    Did you click on the url on tweakng and revamping the Imprviser name? If it makes you nervous to improvise, then you are most likely not SP. And when you say that you have no interest in taking things apart, you seem to to be limiting that to concrete and material things. Ti dominant types take ideas apart to determine their intricate principles. If you are including abstact ideas in your assertion, then you are not INTP. I try not tell people what type they are, but have no problem determining what you're not. You may want to review INJ and ISJ types.

  8. #18
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I was usually forever in the garage taking stuff apart, my dad would come home and freak out about how I was allowed into the garage again....
    Sorry but that whole paragraph did not mean anything when it comes to type. I have a vehicle that gets me from A to B. Whether it's a sleeper would be a moot point since I am not into cars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    It's the way I am when I deal with other people. Especially towards whoever I'm dating. I'm very much the touchy feely, would much rather curl up with someone then just be around them, driven by my deep running emotions, thrives on the happiness of others, puts other's needs before my own, dislikes being the center of attention, shy at first, fiercely loyal when committed, treats sex as a bonding experience, absentminded, always got a dozen different projects on the go, hopeless packrat, type of person.

    I could care less about how much money I could be making if it involves doing something I don't enjoy, I could care less about celebrities and have never had a crush on any of them based on their looks. You could show me a picture of some woman that a lot of guys drool all over and I'd just shrug my shoulders since theres no emotional or mental connection drawing me towards them.

    I fit the INFP profile to a T when it comes to how I interact with other people. It's just outside of dealing with people I tend to take on a stereotype that doesn't seem to fit an INFP at all.
    It would be nice if someone would really read the instructions on the tests. You never take a MBTI questionnaire as to how you are around others. You take it as to how you are when alone and at a peaceful state. What you have claimed could easily be an INTP in the first stages of a relationship. From the Wizard description on Lifexplore, Sandra Krebs Hirsch and Jean Kummerow state that,
    For the INTP, love has three distinct phases: falling in, staying in, and getting out. These phases relate to their thinking preference and its need for order and sequence.

    An INTP characterized falling in love as a stage of complete loss of rationality that may last a year or less. When an INTP falls in love, he or she falls hard - an all or nothing phenomenon. At this stage, INTPs are likely to be very lively, almost giddy, in their new love. The experience rushes over them and carries them along. They do not structure or control it but simply enjoy and experience it. They do many loving things and they are curious about their loved one and are able to overlook his or her flaws. They may bravely ignore the realities of distance, weather, and time to be with the loved one.
    Now compare this with their thoughts on the Dreamer description:
    For the INFP, love is a very deep commitment, and one that is not easily attained. They have ideals, and therefore reality may be carefully scrutinized. With their ideal firmly envisioned, the first date with that special person is carefully planned and prepared for, and often every aesthetic thing is taken care of. The flowers are in place, the right wine is ordered, and the proper meal is prepared.

    INFPs may have difficulty sharing their feelings about others. They keep so many of those feelings inside that they may forget to tell their partner how much they love and appreciate them. They also need reminders of their partner's love. When things go wrong in a relationship, the INFP takes it to heart but does not readily discuss it with others. They may not be willing to communicate to let others know how they are feeling. When scorned, they are very hurt and may overreact in an almost maudlin way.

  9. #19
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    Arrgghhh..... MBTI does not measure emotions, only cognitions. Whether you are emotionally "high maintenance" has no bearing on type.
    Hmm....but a lot of the tests and books ask questions about this. The book Nurture By Nature for example lists things that I describe (or my husband would describe!) as high-maintenace (at least to an ENTJ) - "Are sensitive and empathetic; take most things personally, want harmony and affection, want to be praised for their personal contributions and cooperative spirit" versus T - "Are objective and analytical;don't take things personally, want fairness and justice, want to be praised for their independence and achievements"

    I'm definately a F if this is part of the criteria! I'm very sensitive to criticism (will remember it for years), and don't believe in fairness per se - I believe that fairness is relative.

    If it makes you nervous to improvise, then you are most likely not SP
    Aha - that's the problem with typing me. With every type I've thought to be there is something major which I'm the opposite of or just don't ring true.

    Uhhh, this sounds INT
    Well...when I first started learning about MBTI several years ago I scored as INTJ - but I'm not that cold and rational, and I'm much more socially easy-going (among many other things). So I dismissed the whole thing and revisited it about a year ago and while I find it facinating....I'm obviously having issues 'finding myself!' But the core issue for me with MBTI is that I'm getting conflicting advice about whether do accept what comes 'naturally' _ in my case - bad with money, disorganized, procrastination, etc. or going by what I "do" daily. I've said this before but I'm a huge believer in personal growth and development, figuring out what is working and what isn't and taking steps to improve myself to be the best I can be. I'm VERY future oriented and am always 'striving' for something down the road.

    Maybe your age could be a tell-tale sign, however I am in agreement with "Mom" on the j-ness
    My age? - I claim to be 40 but I've been 40 for three years now.

    Did you click on the url on tweakng and revamping the Imprviser name?
    I'm going to study it more thoroughly, but my first reaction was that perhaps I was taking Improvising to mean a slightly different thing. Like if I was to give a big speech at a convention for business colleagues I wouldn't just wing it. I would have it written and practiced at least a couple of times. But I see they mean Improvisor in a much bigger sense and much of it rings very true.

    "?" - you've written a lot of great information that I'm going to spend some time thinking about. Thank you for all your help. I'm very curious about what you said about possibly confusing S and J-ness. Fascinating.

  10. #20
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Sorry but that whole paragraph did not mean anything when it comes to type. I have a vehicle that gets me from A to B. Whether it's a sleeper would be a moot point since I am not into cars.
    You're discounting the personality trait behind it then. The point of the sleeper is to hide whats on the inside. It's basically a shell in which one hides the true nature behind. On the outside it's basic, and plain ordinary looking. Hidden tho is the true nature, that fire inside that is not shown to just anyone and only comes out when pushed showing that you do actually in fact have teeth and will bite back harder then they could have imagined.

    I don't want people constantly trying to challenge me, I want to be left alone. The idiots who think they're impressing their friends by picking on the guy with a car that has the whole "grandpa's car" stigma to it to make them feel better about themselves are the one's who get bitten.

    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    It would be nice if someone would really read the instructions on the tests. You never take a MBTI questionnaire as to how you are around others. You take it as to how you are when alone and at a peaceful state. What you have claimed could easily be an INTP in the first stages of a relationship.
    I've taken and retaken the test numerous times over the years, I always come back as INFP, never anything but. I've taken it from multiple angles.

    The stereotypes just don't work, I don't know how many people have tried to claim I'm not an INFP based on the fact I don't have a love for writing, poetry, or the arts and prefer more mechanical hobbies.

    The facts are tho that, if you compare the INTP traits, and the INFP traits you listed, I am an INFP at my core. I'm highly driven by emotions, and highly in tune with the emotions of others.

    The INTP has no understanding or value for decisions made on the basis of personal subjectivity or feelings. They strive constantly to achieve logical conclusions to problems, and don't understand the importance or relevance of applying subjective emotional considerations to decisions. For this reason, INTPs are usually not in-tune with how people are feeling, and are not naturally well-equiped to meet the emotional needs of others.
    Is not me at all.

    INFPs do not like conflict, and go to great lengths to avoid it. If they must face it, they will always approach it from the perspective of their feelings. In conflict situations, INFPs place little importance on who is right and who is wrong. They focus on the way that the conflict makes them feel, and indeed don't really care whether or not they're right. They don't want to feel badly. This trait sometimes makes them appear irrational and illogical in conflict situations. On the other hand, INFPs make very good mediators, and are typically good at solving other people's conflicts, because they intuitively understand people's perspectives and feelings, and genuinely want to help them.
    That is more like me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Fe/Fi 36.9/37.7
    Ne/Ni 34.9/25.8
    Se/Si 25.7/19.5
    Te/Ti 28.4/31.9
    Type: 2w% sx/sp/so

    I don't want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

    Never take life to seriously.. No one gets out alive in the end anyway.

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