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  1. #1
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Default Is Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill an ISFP?

    most sites list Beatrix Kiddo as an ENTJ and at first glance she appears to be, but after watching the movie again, she seems like she's really an ISFP in disguise for a number of reasons
    1) her style of dress and the way she moved are SO ISFP.
    2) her responses, speech inflection and body language were all that of an introvert
    3) most of the movie, she was in shadow mode (ENTJ), outside of battle, she is completely different
    4) her communication style was not ENTJ at all. her speech inflection was extremely softspoken and gentle, especially for an american chick (let's face it, most american chicks are loud as hell). she was never harsh or forceful unless she absolutely needed to be.
    5) I think an ENTJ would plan more, like killing the deadly viper assassination squade in their sleep or poisoning them. she just went directly for her targets, even in the case of Oh-Ren when she had to fight off an entire army just to get to her. her approach seemed very much like the SP "jump in and figure it out as you go along" approach than the NT "plan everything out and then execute strategy" approach
    6) her reason for the murders she committed was revenge. IFPs who are pushed to the point of vengeance are some of the most dangerous people in the world because they don't quit even when they know the right place to. when in this unhealthy mode of vengeance, we are often mistaken for Js.
    7) on a more subjective level, her overall "vibe" was that of a graceful, feminine, gentle yet confident woman. I felt she was too subtle to be an ENTJ

    PS: the fact the Fi, Se, Ni and Te were were all extremely strong only adds to the confusion

  2. #2
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    The problem with fiction is that the characters are fictional. This means that they act according to what the script says, not necessarily according to how a real person would act. I agree that with a good director, an actor is free to say "No, this character wouldn't do that, let's try something else", and that many actors basically play themselves no matter what type similarities the character is supposed to have, but still: It is fiction. This makes it perfectly possible for the same character to have for example several different and maybe even conflicting traits at different times in the same movie. You're free to identify with your favorite character anyway; that's what the movies are there for.

  3. #3
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    What ZtX says is true enough. If I were to take typical examples of ISFPs though (as I understand it so far), I wouldn't say she was one. It seems like it takes a lot for them to jump into confrontation. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've spent almost a year now trying to fit square pegs into round holes, when it comes to ISFPs. She's different.. she was already a lot worse than most people (as the Black Mamba). She kind of gets sweeter just by leaving that life and all that.. seems ISFP. But her explosiveness is not that Fi-dom type of outburst, where she's just tapping into that side of herself for the sake of values. She was always doing what she does. She isn't really that different from a character like Spike Spiegel.. also an ex-hitman with a conscience and who eventually ends up creating a bloodbath over his girlfriend. Or even real ISTPs, like Bruce Lee, who used to run around with gangs, and then left, and was one of coolest people ever. I swear, ISTPs are friendlier when you meet them, even if they've done some shitty things. Anyone who can't smile or be gentle or something has some issues like Asperger's. If anyone, Hatoro Hanzi has more of the ebullience of an ISFP, strict values, but succumbs to a somewhat violent act by creating a sword for her.

  4. #4
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    I agree with KDude. That's not ISFP behavior. She does have elements of ISTP, but she's way too focused on vengeance; almost ESTJ-like. That's not like any Ti or Fi dominant person, in my opinion.
    Again: She's a made-up character. She was conceived by a movie buff INTP, which guarantees that she's over-the-top cool and has all the traits that he lacks and wishes he had, but which also means she doesn't have to be realistic in the least bit.
    (Okay, that was a mean joke).

  5. #5
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Not sure about your point on vengeance. I'll usually switch gears and say "screw it" with some things. And on the other hand, I remember hunting down this kid for hours after stealing my bike. I didn't have a plan, but finally caught up and was still as determined. I think maybe the objective just drives that. My bike was a yellow Kuwahara. Like her daughter, it was too cool to lose. Plus, he ruined a good day. I didn't have many good days then.. I won a contest and that's why the kid stole it. Spiteful bastard trying to keep me down, just like Bill. Anyways, enough of the comparisons.. Just my 2c. I don't know if that's really ISTP or not.

  6. #6
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZtX View Post
    She does have elements of ISTP, but she's way too focused on vengeance; almost ESTJ-like. That's not like any Ti or Fi dominant person, in my opinion.
    Not true. My father is ISTP and he's held grudges for decades. He's told me story after story of him "getting back" at people who piss him off. Being an SP doesn't mean you're incapable of any longterm goals, no matter what they are.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Not true. My father is ISTP and he's held grudges for decades. He's told me story after story of him "getting back" at people who piss him off. Being an SP doesn't mean you're incapable of any longterm goals, no matter what they are.
    Okay, my bad.

  8. #8
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I think she's an ISFP too. Just from watching the movies.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    ZtX, I totally agree with your comments about movie characters.

    A lot of this typing will not work, because she has to do what the script says, not necessarily be a consistent type all on her own. In addition, pretty much the characters in this particular movie are caricatures and play "roles" in the script rather than exist in their own rights. Beatrix is "mother-bear vengeance."

    If you want to get a handle on her, I think, overall, you'd have to look at the only window of time in the movie where she is not being driven by script concerns, e.g., vengeance. And that is when she realizes she's tired of being hitched to Bill and just wants out of that old life. And she meets this guy, and sees a chance for a normal life, and goes for it... and even when Bill finds her, she doesn't even realize he's going to hurt her.

    If I had to describe her, I'd call her an ISTP with Te elements -- she responds in the moment with typical ISTP kinetic/mental rationale, but with an actual hardcore goal in mind that she won't waver from, and everything she does is based on achieving that goal. She also does have exhibit a sense of fair play; she won't give anyone a cheap break, but like with Copperhead, she could agree to a momentary truce where the daughter was concerned, until Copperhead broke the truce and then she killed her immediately. She also didn't just try to "blow up the Yakuza" or find a lot of other cheap ways to win, she followed a particular code of etiquette... and yet at the same time, maybe that was less etiquette than her simply saying, "I'm better than you, and I will show you that I'm better than you, and you will regret ever choosing to do to me what you did because you'll die knowing that I was better than you."

    Tarantino is not an I, not in the least. He's an ENTP. The I/E thing is one of the MOST obvious aspects of him; it's why his command of lingo is so good; he soaks that stuff up. (Check out Tolkien for an example of INTP writing -- the language is abstracted and unrealistic, even if it has its own stylistic consistency.) ENTP writers tend to write realistic, savvy, hip dialogue effortlessly.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    ZtX, I totally agree with your comments about movie characters.

    A lot of this typing will not work, because she has to do what the script says, not necessarily be a consistent type all on her own. In addition, pretty much the characters in this particular movie are caricatures and play "roles" in the script rather than exist in their own rights. Beatrix is "mother-bear vengeance."

    If you want to get a handle on her, I think, overall, you'd have to look at the only window of time in the movie where she is not being driven by script concerns, e.g., vengeance. And that is when she realizes she's tired of being hitched to Bill and just wants out of that old life. And she meets this guy, and sees a chance for a normal life, and goes for it... and even when Bill finds her, she doesn't even realize he's going to hurt her. What is she most like in that window of time? What type is that most like?

    If I had to describe her, I'd call her an ISTP with Te elements -- she responds in the moment with typical ISTP kinetic/mental rationale, but with an actual hardcore goal in mind that she won't waver from, and everything she does is based on achieving that goal. She also does have exhibit a sense of fair play; she won't give anyone a cheap break, but like with Copperhead, she could agree to a momentary truce where the daughter was concerned, until Copperhead broke the truce and then she killed her immediately. She also didn't just try to "blow up the Yakuza" or find a lot of other cheap ways to win, she followed a particular code of etiquette... and yet at the same time, maybe that was less etiquette than her simply saying, "I'm better than you, and I will show you that I'm better than you, and you will regret ever choosing to do to me what you did because you'll die knowing that I was better than you." She has made a specific choice, regardless of temperament, to beat all of her old colleagues at their old game ... as far as I can tell, to exact revenge by humiliating them and showing she can take them in a "fair fight" after they ambushed her at the wedding chapel.

    Tarantino is not an I, not in the least. He's an ENTP. The I/E thing is one of the MOST obvious aspects of him; it's why his command of lingo is so good; he soaks that stuff up. (Check out Tolkien for an example of INTP writing -- the language is abstracted and unrealistic, even if it has its own stylistic consistency.) ENTP writers tend to write realistic, savvy, hip dialogue effortlessly.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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