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Thread: INTP/ISFP

  1. #31
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I've been around thinker types my whole life (both Ti and Te). My immediate family are all that way, quite a few friends.. hell even a lot places I've dropped by on the internet. I don't think twice about airing my opinions or whatnot or trying to converse with even hardcore INTP or INTJ-like programmers. I understand them to a point and know that I have been engaging to them with my own thoughts as well. I don't present or write the same way, but I have enough "serious opinions" to be respected enough to communicate at least. That would be umm.. kind of tragic if ISFPs had to be afraid of speaking around T types. Nobody is out to get anyone, for the most part. I could be a T myself, but I've always been on the more sensitive side compared to my family.. both my brother and mother are very stoic types, my dad militaristic and structured. If I am a T, I don't come off as a stereotypical one. I'm trying to hold on to saying I'm ISFP, even though it's hard to fit with what's supposedly expected of me.
    I don't see you guys as useless, thumb-twiddling morons. Not at all. Everyone has their own unique strengths and some of the ones you guys have are ones that NT's lack. But, it goes back to the whole idea that:

    SJ's are looking for a "help mate"
    SP's are looking for a "play mate"
    NF's are looking for a "soul mate"
    NT's are looking for a "mind mate"

    Someone who I can have a deep, thought-provoking conversation with (sometimes serious, other times light and funny but still witty) is such a fun and interesting thing to me. I asked my ISFP one time what would be her number one trait she would want in a partner and, true to form, she said, "Someone who makes me laugh a lot. Like all the time." It's just a matter of "different strokes for different folks". She always wanted to watch a movie that would make her laugh. I always wanted to watch a movie that would make me think.

    As for F making a difference in assertiveness, doesn't F generally try to not offend people? It wants things to go smoothly between people. It doesn't want to step on people's toes. It would rather be diplomatic than abrupt. Whereas, T wants to speak the truth, whether it hurts people's feelings or not. If they can't handle the truth, then that's their problem, basically. These are very general statements and I'm sure someone will say, "Nuh uh, I'm an F and I don't care one bit about people's feelings." But, in a very general sense, I think this holds true.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #32
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    Well if you are an F, you certainly seem to have a well developed thinking side. It's funny though, I do think that my SO and friend do sometimes have difficulty expressing their opinions, but I don't view them as doormats or anything. I view them as non-combative and sensitive, but they have they're thresholds and if you push either to their limit they will either erupt or simply walk away never to be seen again. They are both very independent as well and can become stubborn as goats when they feel overly controlled. Just my personal observations...
    I'm non-combative as well (although I can be combative in a reactionary sense at times). I'm not so assertive as to have any of the characteristic baiting nature of some Ti types (even if they're just having fun). I question myself if anything. Some immature ones unknowingly invade people's space with that kind of behavior, and I've always thought it was uncool. Not something I can see myself doing. But it's not beyond me to discuss things and debate a little, especially when people ask. I'm not an extrovert, but umm.. somewhere along the way I learned if I keep too silent, then I just lose opportunities and chances for making friends.

  3. #33
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    As for F making a difference in assertiveness, doesn't F generally try to not offend people? It wants things to go smoothly between people. It doesn't want to step on people's toes. It would rather be diplomatic than abrupt. Whereas, T wants to speak the truth, whether it hurts people's feelings or not. If they can't handle the truth, then that's their problem, basically. These are very general statements and I'm sure someone will say, "Nuh uh, I'm an F and I don't care one bit about people's feelings." But, in a very general sense, I think this holds true.
    Yeah, I would agree with that. Many F's aren't trying to offend anyone, for the most part.

    I think assertiveness is another issue (which may not have anything to do with offending people). Everyone should have a little room to grow there in themselves. I don't think it's realistic that an entire type would have shy behavior. If I were to use the cognitive test questions, Se and Fi technically would keep an ISFP assertive enough. Where N types motivate themselves through random/interconnected possibilities, SPs are opportunistic in a more direct manner.

    Se:
    Freely follow your gut instincts and exciting physical impulses as they come up.
    Enjoy the thrill of action and physical experience in the present moment.
    Quickly move to take advantage of immediate options for action.
    Instantly read visible cues to see just how far you can go.
    Spur action and pull off results simply by making your presence felt.


    Fi:
    Feel strongly that something is good or bad.
    Remain in touch with what you want for yourself, what motivates you, and what is good.
    Freely enjoy doing what you want for your own personal happiness.
    Always remain true to what you want for yourself or others.
    Evaluate what is worth believing in and most important to who you really are inside.


    If someone scored even moderately on any of these, I don't see how they could be too docile or not stand for something, if necessary.

  4. #34
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, I would agree with that. Many F's aren't trying to offend anyone, for the most part.

    I think assertiveness is another issue (which may not have anything to do with offending people). Everyone should have a little room to grow there in themselves. I don't think it's realistic that an entire type would have shy behavior. If I were to use the cognitive test questions, Se and Fi technically would keep an ISFP assertive enough. Where N types motivate themselves through random/interconnected possibilities, SPs are opportunistic in a more direct manner.

    Se:
    Freely follow your gut instincts and exciting physical impulses as they come up.
    Enjoy the thrill of action and physical experience in the present moment.
    Quickly move to take advantage of immediate options for action.
    Instantly read visible cues to see just how far you can go.
    Spur action and pull off results simply by making your presence felt.


    Fi:
    Feel strongly that something is good or bad.
    Remain in touch with what you want for yourself, what motivates you, and what is good.
    Freely enjoy doing what you want for your own personal happiness.
    Always remain true to what you want for yourself or others.
    Evaluate what is worth believing in and most important to who you really are inside.


    If someone scored even moderately on any of these, I don't see how they could be too docile or not stand for something, if necessary.
    OK, good points. You guys can definitely "stand for something" and sure, you can even assert yourselves. I personally wish you guys (ISFP's) would assert yourselves more. But, here's the point: When I compare an ISFP co-worker to an ESTJ co-worker, the ESTJ could definitely be defined as "assertive". He "asserts" himself, he demands things, he knows what he wants from a situation and he makes sure that he gets it. The ISFP just listens to what is being said, may show some frustration if he doesn't agree, but then doesn't say much and goes with the plan of everyone else. I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong, but you see how one can be seen as assertive and the other one not nearly as much. It's all relative. ISFP's can be assertive, but when compared to other types, they're not nearly as assertive.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  5. #35
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Hmm, it's another reason to just toss the ISFP type. I can't think of a situation where I wasn't assertive. Maybe in dating. And even then, I make some effort.

    As far as my attitude vs ESTJS goes.. not sure how to put it. Umm..I'll go for a somewhat innocent childhood story. I have one ESTJ friend I've known forever. When he first moved in my hood, we were just kids. He had this annoying need to be leader all of the time though. Like, if we were riding bikes in a group, he would have to be in front. Among other things. All of the little subtle assertive/take charge tendencies that play out as adults were already happening back then. After awhile, I got tired of it, and shoved him off his bike. Then he got upset and we got into a fight. Except it wasn't a fight. I punched him a few times and he was down again. Then I kind of lectured him about his pointless need to be a leader and I left. I didn't have any personal beef so much as just thought everyone was equal. He understood and the next day, bought me tacos. Yay.

    Now as older guys, we're good friends, and I admire his assertiveness. But he has a productive type of assertiveness. And he's more detail oriented and a far better planner than I am. I'm happy deferring to him in a lot of cases. Like, if everyone was going to the beach, he's the best person to be on top of a lot of things, tell people where to meet, is never unprepared, etc.. I've just always fought with people who are rude and demeaning in their need to lead. So just to be clear, I don't have a problem with some of it.

    Anyways, I'll cut it short, but I'm assertive probably more than I should be. I'm trying my best to not sound like I'm aggressive or anything. I've got more stories than I care to admit though. Maybe I've always been more of an ISTP - and on that note, I feel bad for speaking for ISFPs.

  6. #36
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    Pointless addition:

    There are times where my ISFP is more logical and I'm the one thinking through value judgements. I told her about how I walked past a homeless guy and his dog, and my Fe went into overdrive over the dog's situation and how I felt compelled to just take it home with me. She told me that sometimes homeless dogs have a better quality of life than dogs with a home (more excercise/attention, whereas dogs with families are left at home all day with none), how I shouldn't take it home because my landlord wouldn't allow me to keep it, and it would be unfair to dump a dog in need of medical attention on my parents. To which I replied, "...Screw logic, I want the dog." She knew I was joking. But I love her rational, down-to-earth nature.

    Her only vice is her fear of displeasing me, which I fear will be exploited by potential jerky future partners. I know it's not my problem to worry about, but I would hate to find out in later life that she is in an abusive relationship. She's too selfless. If she senses any sign of annoyance, she's very quick to apologise.
    Um, yeah.

  7. #37
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    Her only vice is her fear of displeasing me, which I fear will be exploited by potential jerky future partners.
    You already know that her future won't be with you?

    She's too selfless. If she senses any sign of annoyance, she's very quick to apologise.
    Yes. It's funny that you mention this because, just today, my ISFP texted me and said that she was sorry for being so fearful that I would leave if she wasn't perfect during our relationship. And it's been over a year since we ended it. I appreciated what she said and it was probably hard for her to say it, but yeah, they are sometimes very selfless as you mention.

    It can go the other way too though, if they sense you are annoyed and that you're going to try to challenge them, they will sometimes rebel even more just to show you that they don't have to do things your way and that they will do it their way if they want to (which is actually what a lot of INTP's do)- I admired her independent streak, but the rebellion sometimes made me just want to end it on the spot.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #38
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    more of a case of mistaken duality

    entp is far more rewarding to isfp
    esfp is far more rewarding to intp

    i know all the above types and that one letter difference is huge.

  9. #39
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Then again, some INTPs may be actually be ENTPs and some ISFPs, ESFPs. Maybe there's a reason why some are hooking up.

  10. #40
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    On the outside they look like good partners and find each other interesting based on opposite idealogies, but on the inside and both types may use the "we have stuff in common, therefore we must be compatible" fallacy when it is the differences that strive for progression and growth of relationships. Both ISFP and INTP use mirroring tactics to strategize/manipulate others into getting along with them. They will both see this and distrust each other eventually.

    They mistake each other for their duality partners. ESFP-INTP, ISFP-ENTP. That extrovert vs introvert is a big difference.

    The INTPs could also be in fact an ENTP. If an ENTP grew up in a two parent IxxJ household they will subdue their extroversion at times and be less outspoken/wild than other ENTPs. Or if an ENTP is down in the dumps they will even behave more INTP. The only way to determine that is if you put that individual in front of a crowd. The ENTP will bravely gather people around and lead them while the INTP will look more paranoid, fearful if they are in this position.

    I am not an ENFP, they are manipulative.

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