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Thread: ISFPs/ENFPS

  1. #41
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Well, I don't need logical consistency in horror. For me, horror is about aesthetics and atmosphere and fun over everything else. Horror is its own "bubble" as you said.

    I also don't need factual accuracy if a movie is extremely cool in cinematography and soundtrack, like Sofia Coppola's Marie Antoinette. So I tend to sacrifice fact and realism if I can get aesthetic rewards in return, so to speak.

    However, if a show or movie is supposed to be 'realistic' but the characters do really unbelievable things, then I get annoyed. I'm not even explaining this well, but it's something that has happened to me repeatedly, the thought of "oh yeah right" and totally losing interest.
    I haven't seen Marie Antoinette.. I'll check it out.

    I like period pieces or realism too, but I can't say I have much preference for it.

    And it isn't aesthetics that win me over on things, to be honest. It's usually some fundamental premise or symbolism.. or just good storywriting (which I guess can be associated with aesthetics). This is definitely one thing where I feel like less of an SP. I never like art for it's own sake. Some things may be highly stylized, but I can still be somewhat disappointed. Since you mentioned Coppola, I thought Lost in Translation was a lot of style over substance. The whole film is beautiful, but it feels like it's meandering.. inconclusive. I'm not sure what the point is. Which is more like real life, I guess. People don't live out "stories", but just experiences. It's just not my thing exactly. The same need can be translated into horror, where I prefer a clever, underlying plot or some symbolism before I can enjoy the individual scenes, gags, and shocking elements. Some horror films pull off both though.. Dawn of the Dead (both versions) is both clever and done well, aesthetically speaking. Dracula isn't scary, but it's badass on multiple levels too.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I haven't seen Marie Antoinette.. I'll check it out.
    If you don't like Lost in Translation or The Virgin Suicides for the sheer beauty she imbues into films you won't care for Marie Antoinette either.

    I like period pieces or realism too, but I can't say I have much preference for it.
    I live for that, in terms of cinema; period pieces and horror, some comedy.

    And it isn't aesthetics that win me over on things, to be honest. It's usually some fundamental premise or lesson.. or just good storywriting (which I guess can be associated with aesthetics). This is definitely one thing where I feel like less of an SP. Some things may be highly stylized, but I can still be somewhat disappointed. Since you mentioned Coppola, I thought Lost in Translation was a lot of style over substance. The whole film is beautiful, but it feels like it's meandering.. inconclusive. Which is more like real life, I guess. People don't live out "stories", but just experiences. It's just not my thing exactly.
    Oh see I'm opposite...I prefer things to be open ended and meandering like real life *unless it's a mystery novel* and style can really win me over. I'm very picky about what style I prefer - I won't watch just any old CGI crap - but yeah I love cinematography, sets, costumes, soundtracks, and special effects.


    The same need can be translated into horror, where I prefer a clever, underlying plot or some symbolism before I can enjoy the gags and the shocking elements. Some horror films pull off both.. Dawn of the Dead (both versions) is both clever and done well, aesthetically speaking.
    I've been in love with horror since I was a kid, don't know what it is exactly, can't really tell you...however, I like "beautiful" horror the best, stuff like Don't Look Now and The Shining...or things that stylistically amazing with a psychological undertone such as The Exorcist, Carrie, or more recently Rob Zombie's revamp of Halloween. It's so good I had to watch it twice in a row.

    Now I have to have this level of style, though, something has to pull me in that's not just "torture porn." I don't watch horror just to watch people get slowly tortured, I'm a bit averse to those films, and I find a lot of newer horror to be stylistically bland as compared to the more innovative and aesthetically superior horror of the 60s, and 70s. I also like some 80s horror for the whole feel and atmosphere of the 80's.

  3. #43
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I love fantasy :P

    I don't think too much about suspension of belief so much as logical consistency within a story.. Does it work within it's own little "bubble"? If so, then I'm completely fine with it.

    If not, I'll bring it up.. Like the other night my friends rented that new Nightmare on Elm Street. At the end, I started wondering why Freddy even had those powers over people's dreams to begin with. At first, I thought.. maybe he was rewarded with them because he got screwed in life.. But then, the writer threw that completely out the window when it came out that Freddy wasn't justified at all. He was a child rapist.

    It could have made sense in some far fetched way if he wasn't.. like I could suspend my belief enough to believe some unknown entity gave him the power so he could enact vengeance. But seeing that that he wasn't innocent, none of it made sense. And it's not like he sold his soul or partook in some "evil" ritual to get that way either. He was just some random creep who got burned by the people in that town... and all of the sudden, he becomes this unstoppable force, with like.. 13 sequels to his name. Wtf is up that?
    This is soooo "Fi logic" - you need a moral reason, a consistency in feeling.
    This reminds me of when I watched this anime vampire movie (an INTJ made me!). The premise of the movie was that this girl was kidnapped by a vampire & this team has to rescue her (they're pro vampire killers). But then you come to find out she ran away with the vampire because she fell in love with him. So then I'm like, "Why did she fall in love with him?"; and the INTJ says, "The movie never says why; that's not the point of the story". Then I automatically find it stupid. I hate when characters fall in love because the script says so, especially when one of the characters is basically EVIL. I need a GOOD reason to believe they are in love. How can I accept the rest of the movie if the feeling behind the premise has no plausible reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    If you don't like Lost in Translation or The Virgin Suicides for the sheer beauty she imbues into films you won't care for Marie Antoinette either.
    Have you seen Bright Star? Sooo gorgeous and it's about John Keats
    I'm an aesthetic myself, so I don't know if this is an S/N thing so much as Fi idealism of beauty. Plus visual atmospheres do impart MOOD, which is significant in itself to me. /tangent
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #44
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    If you don't like Lost in Translation or The Virgin Suicides for the sheer beauty she imbues into films you won't care for Marie Antoinette either.
    I'm still openminded.. I'll watch it.

    I live for that, in terms of cinema; period pieces and horror, some comedy.
    As far as historical dramas go, have you seen HBO's Rome? I say I don't have a preference for period stuff, but that's probably the best thing that's been on TV in years.

  5. #45
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This is soooo "Fi logic" - you need a moral reason, a consistency in feeling.
    Hah.. Maybe you're right. It's funny how much I try to hide my moral reasoning in things, but you weeded me out instantly.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Have you seen Bright Star? Sooo gorgeous and it's about John Keats
    I'm an aesthetic myself, so I don't know if this is an S/N thing so much as Fi idealism of beauty. Plus visual atmospheres do impart MOOD, which is significant in itself to me. /tangent
    True: atmosphere is about mood and could just be an Fi thing, totally.

    However, I also crave a certain bit of action, and I honestly don't know a whole lot of NFs who like horror as much as I do...I know one, and she's on this forum, and I'm not sure that she likes horror as much as I do, but she does like horror. Many NFs seem ethically repelled by the idea of living out Id experiences even via DVD. I've experienced a lot of head-shaking over my interest in horror not only here from NFs, but also on LiveJournal.

    Hmmm...what else. Oh yeah, my fleeting outbursts of temper which I almost always quickly get over; reports from people that they see "Te" from me on the forum a lot (which very well could be Se instead); people saying I seem SFP over and over and over again in ventrillo...ah, also an ENFP who met me in person said she didn't really see my Ne or Te when she met me in person...I've also begun wondering if I relate to some of these descriptions of Ni because I'm actually using it myself, albeit in a tertiary/inferior manner.

    I think I'd also frankly like to do something more hands-on in terms of career, and I'm sick to death of academics, though I love to read what I want to read on my own time.

    I also get told that I'm being "anecdotal" - I'm always telling these stories from my personal life experience and that does not equal "theorizing."

  7. #47
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Yeah, I can't identify with the idealism applied to stuff like horror films. Since I've been reading more Socionics stuff lately, it seemed more extreme there.. Like INFJs would walk out of the room at any hint of violence on TV. I'm sorry, but damn.. Not only am I not like that, but I tempted just to poke fun at it too (which I won't, but I could).

    I don't like any of the torture crap like you either though (for example, Hostel).. that's definitely tasteless and unnecessary. That, and even if there's not much torture, too much brutality would get me turning away (like some scenes in those Final Destination films). I'm idealistic enough that I don't get off on gore and DO cheer for the good guy though

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't like any of the torture crap like you either though (for example, Hostel).. that's definitely tasteless and unnecessary. That, and even if there's not much torture, too much brutality would get me turning away (like some scenes in those Final Destination films). I'm idealistic enough that I don't get off on gore and DO cheer for the good guy though
    I don't turn away from gore in horror films, and I enjoy the visceral experience of some violent scenes, like L'Interieur. What's awesome about being me is that I have a fantastic grasp of what is real and what isn't, and therefore can enjoy the rush out watching two women bludgeon each other to death in a totally ridiculous slasher film way, but I will cry my eyes out over realistic suffering ...like seeing the photograph of a badly burned veteran of the war in Iraq who is only in his twenties and was a handsome young man before being sent to battle.

    Hostel doesn't scare me, the world news does.

    The thing is, too, is that ISFPs are supposed to be a bit idealistic because of Fi. Also they share some supposedly NF traits that seem somewhat not-SP-ish like being sensitive to criticism.

    I used to think that there was a preposterous sheltered attitude that some upper-middle class people have. Maybe that's it, or maybe they're just NFs and I'm not.

    I don't mind either way anymore. Whatever type I am, so be it.

  9. #49
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ^ My ISFP step-dad says he liked violence when he was young, but now he avoids it for his own moral reasons. He has a strange ascetic take on life now though...

    Ethics aside - I just don't find it enjoyable to watch. I'm not desensitized to it in a way that is unusual. Most people can handle more violence than I can. I think I empathize too easily with fictional characters; even the minor ones treated as "expendable" are too easy for me to identify with, just on the level of being human & alive even. I can handle PG-13 violence and after that I look away or don't watch it at all of that's a big part of the movie.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #50
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The thing is, too, is that ISFPs are supposed to be a bit idealistic because of Fi. Also they share some supposedly NF traits that seem somewhat not-SP-ish like being sensitive to criticism.
    I'm sensitive to criticism, but not in a "WAAH.. leave me alone" way. I just want to be respected. I might just fight with them, depending if they're trying to be dominant or flippant in some way. If it's merely instructive, I have no problem with someone teaching me a better way to do something. I ask people questions all of the time anyways. Any hint of condescension though means I'll probably put them in a position that requires them to kick my ass or gtfo. I mean.. It just seems like some people criticize without being polite, or even coupling it with an insult. So I make them live out the full reality of this supposed badass-in-charge attitude, if they can. Which they can't. I'm not uber-sensitive to criticism, because I already know that the harshest critics are completely full of shit, and just act that way because they are spoiled, and people let them get away with it all of their lives. My role is to screw that up for them. In some cases, it helps them rethink their approach with people, and I ended up being friends.

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