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Thread: Ni in SPs

  1. #31
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Ni is what makes me somewhat insightful into situations with little information. I don't rely on it that much. If I get an Ni "hunch" than I tend to try to gather more facts to back up my hunch. Often I find that my Ni hunches are a little off.
    I've never understood why people are so distrustful of their Ni hunches and consider them so unreliable. I see this everywhere. I mean, it's not just people expressing this opinion -- I've seen Ni described as unreliable from other sources as well.

    For example, in the ESTP description at personalitypage.com, it says, "An ESTP will occasionally have strong intuitions which are often way off-base, but sometimes very lucid and positive. The ESTP does not trust their instincts, and is suspicious of other people's intuition as well."

    Again, I don't get this at all.

    My hunches? Are spot-on. In fact, NOT listening to my hunches has gotten me into some seriously bad trouble. I learned the hard way to listen to my instincts. They know better than I do. Even if they make absolutely no sense to me in the moment, trusting them and watching events unfold proves to me how right they are.

    My closer friends have learned to listen to me when I warn them of how events will unfold in regards to human behavior. When I give something my full attention and give one of my "forecasts," I guess you could call it, it's incredibly uncommon that I'm wrong. It's very frustrating when I say, "this is going to happen," but the person doesn't like what I have to say, so they ignore my advice and I can only sit by and watch the bad crap unfold I had warned them about. I absolutely hate saying I-Told-You-So, but I hate it more when people come crying to me all, "omg life sucks cuz this and that happened!" and I'm like, "You should listen to me next time, retard."

    Mkay, enough bitching about that.

    So, yeah. My Ni? It's very well developed, and I fucking love it. It's no shrivelled up little prune as it's suggested by being my 4th function. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that I was raised by an ISTP, so it's possible that I got a head-start on the whole Ni thing from learning by example.
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  2. #32
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    The above is another example of why I have a tough time swallowing these function theories. Basically, they mean whatever people decide to attach them to, whether that's consistent with anybody else's definition or not.
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  3. #33
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Yes I feel that way a lot too Jeffster. I ordered a book that a couple people have suggested which will maybe help with some standard definitions so then maybe I can see if I really understand any of it.

    It does seem like everyone has their own perspective, though...

    Thanks for all the thoughts everyone though! I am putting functions on hold for a little while until I get the chance to read it in a more logical format.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    ^yeah, i'm still having difficulty in understanding how Ni differs from Ne, or Si from Se, and so forth. i've looked up some websites, but it offered little help really.
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    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  5. #35
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    The above is another example of why I have a tough time swallowing these function theories. Basically, they mean whatever people decide to attach them to, whether that's consistent with anybody else's definition or not.
    Yeah, I have trouble with that too. In the beginning I thought I might have been some type other than ESTP, since my Ni was so strong (and I can only assume it's Ni that's going on here, since it's described as being similar to premonition), but after studying all of the types, ESTP (with ISTP as a runner-up) was the only thing that fit. Either I'm wrong, or I'm an abnormal example of my type, or the system has a major flaw in it.

    The main issue I have with the functions theory is the idea that specific functions develop at specific ages. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they can't all be present at once and just all be immature. Ni is my last function and I had that down to a science by my early teens, along with all of my other functions.
    Never wrestle with a pig. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.



  6. #36
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I can use my "Te" too, but I'm not gonna say I like it necessarily. There could be different dynamics in my type compared to yours maybe, where Fi wants to be pleasant or at least, highly aware about my own comfort level...and so any other approach is sort of in conflict with it. I think I developed enough in a way though to use some of it because I grew up around so much Te.. but it's like I have bad associations with it that it just comes in negative forms usually. I was reading Naomi Quenk's book and she would describe this as stress/being in the grip of shadow behavior (she says sometimes it's chronic too).. and it's not a good use of Te in the way you're using Ni.

    Also, the more I become aware of how positive Te can be, maybe I'll get better at it. Right now, my attitude almost instinctually categorizes it's approach as "Asshole!" O_O ..tends to rub me wrong, down to how some people word things. I don't want to say all Te's are like that though. But in many instances, I end up wanting to express in the way I see it. Becoming an asshole myself. Otherwise, I don't even use it.. I might organize my music library at best And that's kind of relaxing actually.. but I pretty much suck at breaking things down that way and categorizing anything too much beforehand to have life controllable or methodical in that sense. Even this post is gibberish probably. :P

    Hmm, anyways, perhaps you're just in the right position to appreciate Ni or something. I know people (ESPs) that I'm gonna say don't like thinking in that way, but you seem a little different in your interests as an ESTP. I mean, you're half-Madonna subtype and half Halo Girl :P Pretty well rounded. And maybe that's all it is.. being well rounded.

  7. #37
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    ^yeah, i'm still having difficulty in understanding how Ni differs from Ne, or Si from Se, and so forth. i've looked up some websites, but it offered little help really.
    Careful! 90% of what you read online about function theory is tripe. Ripe tripe, at that.

    I found the easiest way to understand the differances came when I pulled back a little, and started off by thinking about them as extroverted percieving and introverted percieving. The fundamental differance between the two is that extroverted functions create a drive to experience the world, where as introverted functions create a desire to sit back and try to understand things.

    The extroverted percieving functions both create a drive to explore and experiment. There doesn't need to be any particular goal. An EP will happily set off, just to see what happens.

    Introverted percieving functions are the inverse of this attitude. They are both drives to understand what and why things happen, and plan ahead.

    It is this inversion that explain why the two types of function alienate each other. The greater the drive to just explore, the more repressed the need to plan ahead and understand ones reasons for doing something (and also the converse).

    Thus have primary extroverted percieving forces the introverted percieving into the inferior position and having primary intoverted percieving crushes the extroverted percieving.

    Both attitudes have their pros and cons. EPs will tend to build up a board base of experiences, but risk becomeing unfocused and never mastering anything in particular. IJs usually have deep, sharpened skills, but risk becomeing over specialised.

    Moving on to look at the specifics of each function...

    Se is more concerned with exploring the physical essence of the world and how they fit into it. An ISFP artist may use Se to explore how media can be used to express there thoughts and feelings, how a dance can change the emotions of those who see it or participate, for example. Se is more the exploritive side of extroverted percieving. Se is concerned with what the experience itself does to you and the world.

    Ne is more concerned with concepts and how they relate to what exists. They tend to be greate experimenters, drawn to indulge in things because of what they represent, more than because of what they actually are. An ENP may grow cystals in a dish, not because they have any use for them, but rather because they represent the chemistry they've been reading about. Or they may spend days scrambling around in the mud, digging up little bits of broken pottery because of the history they carry.

    Si is a function that asks "What makes you think this method/idea will work?" Why do people believe that success is probable if you follow this course of action? As a motivation, it causes SJs to try and maximise there odds of sccess or at least avoiding disaster. Si wants proof that something will work, hence they way it is associated with things that are "tride and true".

    Ni is more inclined to ask "Why are we doing this at all?" What is the motivation for all this effort, and most of all, does that motivation interest me? Is there really any reason why I shouldn't try to do somethinf completely different?

    Does that explanation of the functions help any?
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    The above is another example of why I have a tough time swallowing these function theories. Basically, they mean whatever people decide to attach them to, whether that's consistent with anybody else's definition or not.
    That is what I like about them. They are just abstractions to reflect on, not to clarify. Like an image of something represents almost the same thing to everybody, yet at the same time is different for everybody.

  9. #39
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Careful! 90% of what you read online about function theory is tripe. Ripe tripe, at that.

    I found the easiest way to understand the differances came when I pulled back a little, and started off by thinking about them as extroverted percieving and introverted percieving. The fundamental differance between the two is that extroverted functions create a drive to experience the world, where as introverted functions create a desire to sit back and try to understand things.

    The extroverted percieving functions both create a drive to explore and experiment. There doesn't need to be any particular goal. An EP will happily set off, just to see what happens.

    Introverted percieving functions are the inverse of this attitude. They are both drives to understand what and why things happen, and plan ahead.

    It is this inversion that explain why the two types of function alienate each other. The greater the drive to just explore, the more repressed the need to plan ahead and understand ones reasons for doing something (and also the converse).

    Thus have primary extroverted percieving forces the introverted percieving into the inferior position and having primary intoverted percieving crushes the extroverted percieving.

    Both attitudes have their pros and cons. EPs will tend to build up a board base of experiences, but risk becomeing unfocused and never mastering anything in particular. IJs usually have deep, sharpened skills, but risk becomeing over specialised.

    Moving on to look at the specifics of each function...

    Se is more concerned with exploring the physical essence of the world and how they fit into it. An ISFP artist may use Se to explore how media can be used to express there thoughts and feelings, how a dance can change the emotions of those who see it or participate, for example. Se is more the exploritive side of extroverted percieving. Se is concerned with what the experience itself does to you and the world.

    Ne is more concerned with concepts and how they relate to what exists. They tend to be greate experimenters, drawn to indulge in things because of what they represent, more than because of what they actually are. An ENP may grow cystals in a dish, not because they have any use for them, but rather because they represent the chemistry they've been reading about. Or they may spend days scrambling around in the mud, digging up little bits of broken pottery because of the history they carry.

    Si is a function that asks "What makes you think this method/idea will work?" Why do people believe that success is probable if you follow this course of action? As a motivation, it causes SJs to try and maximise there odds of sccess or at least avoiding disaster. Si wants proof that something will work, hence they way it is associated with things that are "tride and true".

    Ni is more inclined to ask "Why are we doing this at all?" What is the motivation for all this effort, and most of all, does that motivation interest me? Is there really any reason why I shouldn't try to do somethinf completely different?

    Does that explanation of the functions help any?
    actually, yes! thank you.

    i still yearn to learn more about it though. care to add in some about Fe vs. Fi and Te vs. Ti?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  10. #40
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Ni is what makes me somewhat insightful into situations with little information. I don't rely on it that much. If I get an Ni "hunch" than I tend to try to gather more facts to back up my hunch. Often I find that my Ni hunches are a little off.

    Ni "misfires" sometimes when I tell myself a story about a situation that is exaggerated and probably untrue. Ni can be helpful, but since mine is not strong, I try to take it with a grain of salt. Need my facts.
    Ditto. For me it's also sometimes a magical solution to a problem I hadn't thought out but it appears in my head instantly.
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