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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm confused.. Are ISTPs pretty in touch with their emotional side (and just guarded)? Or is it the difference between not being able to be "Fe" like? If that's the case, some of y'all don't sound much different than Fi. IFPs might be a little self absorbed or stilted in their communication, ESFPs actually can kind of be inconsiderate in that some might be flighty at first or even toss out something Te-like that the other might not be ready for. Everyone's got problems
    I really dont understand Fi for what it is, though I do understand the abstractness that is Fi. I have experienced it firsthand at times, but honestly "feeling" is strange to me and its hard to seperate from a sensation. I have to listen more to a "pull" then feelings.


    To the OP, I dont have problem with validation, but affirmations and words of expression are a different story. If I am pulled toward a person they tend to know. I guess I need/like/want independence in that area so I dont affirm or express it. I need a long leash in that department To not be trapped by feelings or to not use feelings to judge.

    Validation is about the other person so I dont have a problem with validating the other person.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #42
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, it's not on cue for me either.

    I wouldn't say I'm unintentionally insensitive though, which ISTPs seem to find themselves being sometimes. That's probably the only real big difference.

    At worst, I'm quiet and won't say a whole lot to the person. I might go home later though and right before I pass out, might think of something they were complaining about, and feel bad for them. I might txt them goodnight/take care.. might bring it up another time. Just all depends.
    oh, it's not just "sometimes"...it's fairly frequent. It takes me awhile to figure it out too. "Hm....why isn't s/he talking to me today? What did I do? Awwww, I prolly said something insensitive. I wonder what it was. We were talking about blah, blah, blah, and all I did was say.....Ohhh.....THAT's what I said....Why would s/he get mad about that?! That's stupid. They're stupid. I didn't mean anything by it."

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    for me it's like "i'm feeling tired" "that sucks".
    Yep.

    Basically I just don't associate with what the other person is describing and it's very difficult to show I care when I have no idea what they're talking about. "Hey, I get that you're whining about something and you're upset, but idk wtf to say 'cause it's practically a foreign language. I'm gonna sit here and stare at you."....That's what goes thru my mind.

    I just read this in the ITP thread...
    Some Introverted Thinking types say they cannot truly understand something in the Feeling arena if they haven�t actually experienced it. As a result, when they are in the grip of their inferior function, they find that emotions from others are upsetting and only intensify the magnitude of the situation.
    Definitely true for me.
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  3. #43
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    I understand people's actions, I know how to read them, how to react- (and when my feelings burst out as actions, I can read that as well) but internally? It's a real process to suss out those really complex emotions.

    And by then, it not only feels like a "dirty secret"... I don't want to manipulate others with statements of my "feelings"- it's also like a burden, or a duty.
    That's interesting. If you tell someone else your feelings then it amounts to manipulation? Tell me more about this.

    It's more a defensive mechanism for myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post
    oh, it's not just "sometimes"...it's fairly frequent.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  4. #44
    Senior Member seamaid's Avatar
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    Hmm... I found this on Metafilter and thought it was relevant to this discussion. Good advice there for how Feelers in relationships with Thinkers could get their feelings validated.

    Should I ask for what I need from him? And if so, how? | Ask MetaFilter

    The couple in question seems to be INFx and xSTx, quite possibly ISTP.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I know what I feel when I feel it but I don't always know why I feel it. That takes time to figure out and it usually happens over a period of time having the same recurring emotions given the same person/issue, etc. If I do take time to understand why I feel a certain way sometimes it feels like a dirty secret I'm keeping. Sometimes telling someone else feels like I'm betraying my own trust. (weird. I know) So. I guess this would be guarded.
    This is EXACTLY what happens to me (though I don't think I would have ever been able to articulate it as well). I'm finally starting to understand why I felt so suffocated when I was surrounded by women who constantly shared their feelings and insisted that I do the same. Ugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    I'm actually trying to think of tips on how to do this on those types that need a lot of verbal affirmation and feedback, because that's probably the toughest for ISTPs. It would help me too, thinking of some ways to fill that (because its a huge ENFJ need) without it being too forced. I know the ISTPs I know are careful what they say and have a sense of integrity that can cause difficulty in using words that might come off as mushy, dramatic or fake. I imagine if one isn't used to language of the unconscious a lot of it comes out sounding like forced poetry, and can make the ISTP feel ridiculous, inconsistent or vulnerable in a way they don't want to be. Also, like MDP2525 said, I think a lot of ISTPs might think that their feelings on a subject are already 'out there' & that putting extra words into describing or projecting them is either overkill or attention grabbing.
    I really struggled with this when planning my wedding. I spent *weeks* trying to find exactly the right words to express my emotions both for our wedding invitations and the ceremony wording without sounding mushy or overly poetic. It was exhausting. I am so relieved that the wedding is over and I don't have to deal with all of the emotional expression aspects of wedding planning anymore.

    I am terrible at validating other people's feelings, particularly when they are emotionally needy. It's really backwards in a way. If someone needs someone else to tell them how great they are because their self-esteem depends on it, I will deliberately avoid giving them this feedback. I don't like feeling responsible for other people's happiness (or lack thereof).

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    I also think complimenting or giving verbal affirmation of any kind might be awkward because of the processing time it takes for an ISTP to decide it's worth it and genuine. Like MDP2525 has said, (and I've heard other ISTPs say something similar), by the time the expressions might be seen as genuine or worth saying, they seem out of place or no longer appropriate for the time / worth saying. If an ISTP could make attempts to recall thoughts of what could be genuinely validating if expressed, just as they might remember an act of service (like, "I should fix the ... later. X would like that."), they could limit the awkwardness of expressing it later by saying "I was thinking about ... (and then express the validation) today."
    I can't even count the number of times I have chosen to say nothing because by the time I figured out the "right" thing to say I felt like too much time had elapsed for it to still be worth it...

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    Another type of validating (like in the post you mentioned that I commented on) another person is through quality one-on-one time. I think ISTPs are naturally not tuned to need a lot of this from their relationships or understand what it really means without a bit of wonder. ISTPs are action oriented and seem to value people as extensions or additions to the activities in their life. They also get comfortable with people and feel more relaxed in their presence, but the other person does not necessarily have to be in the spotlight or a part of the action.
    This is definitely true for me. My husband and I can spend an entire day sitting on the couch, each working on our computers without saying a word to each other, and feel like we got a lot of quality "together" time at the end of the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    Are ISTPs good with physical touch? I get a lot of mixed information on this. I know some people find physical touch validating. To some it is the primary expression used to gauge feelings. I think, for me it is about 3rd on my list but quite necessary for romantic relationships. I've heard ISTPs can be very cuddly (mine had Aspergers so he wasn't for reasons other than type) and that ISTP dad's can be really physically loving to kids. But I've also heard that touch is similar to words and can be guarded against if it exposes to much or causes vulnerability.
    It depends on who is doing the touching. In my marriage, physical touch is probably my primary method of expressing love to my husband. Snuggling on the couch or holding hands can be much more gratifying and meaningful than trying to express my feelings verbally. In my close relationships I give hugs freely and frequently.

    On the flip side, I am extremely uncomfortable with physical touch when it is initiated by someone that I am not very close to (particularly when it is unexpected, or more intimate than I am comfortable with, e.g. a back-rub from any man other than my husband, or someone reaching over to rub my shoulder to try to "comfort" me when I wasn't in need of comfort). In those situations I feel intensely claustrophobic and look for any excuse to get as far away as possible. Close talkers (people who lean in no matter how far back you lean in response) make me feel the same way.

  6. #46
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elli143 View Post
    It depends on who is doing the touching. In my marriage, physical touch is probably my primary method of expressing love to my husband. Snuggling on the couch or holding hands can be much more gratifying and meaningful than trying to express my feelings verbally. In my close relationships I give hugs freely and frequently.

    On the flip side, I am extremely uncomfortable with physical touch when it is initiated by someone that I am not very close to (particularly when it is unexpected, or more intimate than I am comfortable with, e.g. a back-rub from any man other than my husband, or someone reaching over to rub my shoulder to try to "comfort" me when I wasn't in need of comfort). In those situations I feel intensely claustrophobic and look for any excuse to get as far away as possible. Close talkers (people who lean in no matter how far back you lean in response) make me feel the same way.
    I think I agree with all of that. A couple of weeks ago I was at a bar and these scummy dudes were hitting on a girl I was with and they were trying to be all friendsy with us. And one dude sitting next to me had his arm kinda around me, just on the back of the chair and at one point he put his hand on my waist and I think my whole body transformed into an angry face of repulsion. UGH! Get away!!! NOW!

    And like Elli143 said, the other side of the spectrum is with *the* man, and I'm totally cuddly with him. We even hold hands in the car. I give my good friends hugs every now and then.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post


    Yep.

    Basically I just don't associate with what the other person is describing and it's very difficult to show I care when I have no idea what they're talking about. "Hey, I get that you're whining about something and you're upset, but idk wtf to say 'cause it's practically a foreign language. I'm gonna sit here and stare at you."....That's what goes thru my mind.

    I just read this in the ITP thread...

    Definitely true for me.
    This is true for me too, I just don't care much about how people are feeling anymore, I don't try to analyze it anymore. Before I would find it upsetting and try to fix it someway somehow but I realize no one wants that, they just step all over you. So now I just let people let out their own emotions. I can only control how I feel and give them logical advice if needed.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    This is true for me too, I just don't care much about how people are feeling anymore, I don't try to analyze it anymore. Before I would find it upsetting and try to fix it someway somehow but I realize no one wants that, they just step all over you. So now I just let people let out their own emotions. I can only control how I feel and give them logical advice if needed.
    Doing this makes you a good listener.

  9. #49
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    I'll admit it, I'm really terrible at this. I'm so terrible at it that i dont even really know what "this" is, except maybe to explain it as the habit of expressing the type of affections that make someone feel loved. I always seem to forget that this is something a lot of people need whether or not I relate to that need much. My needs tend to be more physical... food, adequately comfortable clothing, sleep/shelter, etc. and I'm good. I think I tend to project these same needs onto other people and assume as long as they have their practical needs met (with additions like feeling comfortably safe and cared for) that they are happy. I feel like I'm on a completely different wavelength where it doesn't occur to me to do this. Just to clarify, it's not actually liking or loving someone, but the active expression of it so that they feel it (seems to be different for everyone). I guess you could call it Fe.

    Anyone else experience this?
    My ISFJ best friend is married to an ISTP. She is sometimes talking to him (like telling a dream she had or something meaningful to her) and if he doesn't feel like listening or isn't interested, he will do something else or even leave the room. She was hurt and puzzled at first, but learned to accept him that way.
    I personally don't think it is something that can be accepted.
    If considering or understanding people's emotional needs isn't natural to you, it is still important to make an effort and be attentive.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    Doing this makes you a good listener.
    I guess so.....thanks homie.

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