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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Nope, not at all, it's just often a bad sign for an ISTP.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...rior-itps.html
    Nice post there about ITP types I can defiantly agree with some aspects, as a kid I was very emotional especially if I was neglected by certain people and friends. Usually I would get angry if someone disagreed with me and I would start fights and arguments pointlessly. I don't ever think that neglecting your emotions is a good thing. The intense burst moments are unhealthy as well as I could go weeks feeling angry and frustrated sometimes I can become obsessed about a situation I can't solve in my head. Thinking too much leads to problems for the ITP types, and it seems they do become emotionally disorganized.

  2. #32
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Indeed. An emotional ISTP is often an ISTP in crisis.
    I see myself as very emotional. My mind never shuts up. I feel things all the time and with intensity. Yet, it never reaches others. It's very difficult to translate to the outside and I am always surprised that I'm not transparent to others.

    Regarding the OP:

    How can we validate other people's emotions when we are so dismissive of our own? It's like...everything we aren't. The hardest thing I do is determine what feelings I react to and which ones I don't. I spend too much time on this stuff and by the time I determine something is worth reacting to - it's not worth reacting too.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  3. #33
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm confused.. Are ISTPs pretty in touch with their emotional side (and just guarded)? Or is it the difference between not being able to be "Fe" like? If that's the case, some of y'all don't sound much different than Fi. IFPs might be a little self absorbed or stilted in their communication, ESFPs actually can kind of be inconsiderate in that some might be flighty at first or even toss out something Te-like that the other might not be ready for. Everyone's got problems

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm confused.. Are ISTPs pretty in touch with their emotional side (and just guarded)? Or is it the difference between not being able to be "Fe" like? If that's the case, some of y'all don't sound much different than Fi. IFPs might be a little self absorbed or stilted in their communication, ESFPs actually can kind of be inconsiderate in that some might be flighty at first or even toss out something Te-like that the other might not be ready for. Everyone's got problems
    I don't really understand your question but what I got from ITPs are that they are indeed emotional like any human being but don't need to be emotional unless there is a valid reason, this can cause problems such as bottling up anger and not paying attention as much to how you feel. For feelers, they don't find reason to be a limiting cause of letting go of their emotions.

  5. #35
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm confused.. Are ISTPs pretty in touch with their emotional side (and just guarded)? Or is it the difference between not being able to be "Fe" like? If that's the case, some of y'all don't sound much different than Fi. IFPs might be a little self absorbed or stilted in their communication, ESFPs actually can kind of be inconsiderate in that some might be flighty at first or even toss out something Te-like that the other might not be ready for. Everyone's got problems
    I know what I feel when I feel it but I don't always know why I feel it. That takes time to figure out and it usually happens over a period of time having the same recurring emotions given the same person/issue, etc. If I do take time to understand why I feel a certain way sometimes it feels like a dirty secret I'm keeping. Sometimes telling someone else feels like I'm betraying my own trust. (weird. I know) So. I guess this would be guarded.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    I think you have the right idea, actually. It seems like some people (maybe extroverts?) need a certain amount and type of attention or it seems like they feel I am invalidating them. I am not certain why but I find that insecurities tend to come out around me, which I don't understand because I do my best not to be intimidating or aggressive towards these types of people. So I'm looking for proactive ways to validate others. This helps them relax then I feel better knowing they are comfortable with themselves, so it's more for me than for them, I think. Any thoughts?
    The extroverts I am close to, seem to need a lot of verbal feedback. If not, I perceive insecurity or frustrations build up as their needs go unmet. Eventually, snowballing into verbal lashings. I care how I make people feel, so I fine tune my social skills and try to meet them in the middle. I guess that's a form of validation...? I don't see my "fine-tuning" as fake because I feel sincere in wanting interactions to be pleasant.

    I feel extroverts want more than I can realistically give. The pressure to give back is too much.
    -being silly here-

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    IIFPs might be a little self absorbed or stilted in their communication,
    This gets better with age.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm confused.. Are ISTPs pretty in touch with their emotional side (and just guarded)? Or is it the difference between not being able to be "Fe" like? If that's the case, some of y'all don't sound much different than Fi. IFPs might be a little self absorbed or stilted in their communication, ESFPs actually can kind of be inconsiderate in that some might be flighty at first or even toss out something Te-like that the other might not be ready for. Everyone's got problems
    Aren't we all human? Don't we all bleed?

    I *feel* I understand something; rather than *know*. Perhaps thinkers *know* they understand something; rather than *feel*. I'm confident in how I feel, which needs no further justification or validation. I *feel* it, so therefore it *is*. Facts/logic are optional; as needed.

    Now flipping the logic: ISTP's being human, feel emotions for sure, but do not trust their feelings...? (Requiring more fact-based/logical justification.) So internal battles for the ISTP might become rather complicated and emotional, if left unsettled where the heart and the head simply cannot agree. This seems logical to me as to how ISTP's might become emotional...?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I see myself as very emotional. My mind never shuts up. I feel things all the time and with intensity. Yet, it never reaches others. It's very difficult to translate to the outside and I am always surprised that I'm not transparent to others.

    Regarding the OP:

    How can we validate other people's emotions when we are so dismissive of our own? It's like...everything we aren't. The hardest thing I do is determine what feelings I react to and which ones I don't. I spend too much time on this stuff and by the time I determine something is worth reacting to - it's not worth reacting too.
    ^ Good point that I didn't consider, but it makes sense, and I respect it. I feel for you. It's tough to validate what you don't easily see or understand. The same can be said for me in other areas. So maybe the solution would be to ask questions before validating. A lot of times when people are expressing their feelings, they just want someone to listen to them and say "I feel for you". So let's take the hiking example, when the other person says "I'm feeling tired." Instead of trying to make validating statements that you're not totally sure about, you could ask a question, "are you feeling too tired?", "Do you want to stop and rest?", "What can I do to help?"

    Asking a question, is totally appropriate when you don't know what to so say. It shows genuine concern and a desire to validate the other person if you knew what they want. Showing you have a desire to be supportive/validating, but not knowing exactly how to do it, has got to be worth something.

  8. #38
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    for me it's like "i'm feeling tired" "that sucks".

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by foolish heart View Post
    I didn't mean being emotional or sappy. I loathe the idea of pretending to understand someone's feelings if I don't really know where they're coming from or being fake or pitying. I mean learning to be more tuned into their needs and providing for them in a sincere manner. Like Toast said in the other thread, it's our feelings of wanting to give service/gift refocused on their needs as they are. It's something I'd like to improve at. Tips would be appreciated if anyone knows any.
    You're already doing it. Haha. You came to my post and offered assistance to the NFs. You sweet thing.

    I think its mainly about figuring out what 'kind' of expression feels validating to the other person and then analyzing how you can express those things genuinely and comfortably. [Example: If someone needs words of affirmation & gifts. Poetry is likely out. (haha) But silly notes might be something you could do comfortably.] I'm pretty sure ISTPs are naturally tuned to give validation with service, protectiveness and by being good gift givers. The reason they are considered "invalidating" by emotional types might be because these are difficult to see for them to see as direct because: 1.) They usually require an external trigger, like an event or occasion. 2.) They are not directly emotional with an ISTP (like an ISTPs 'protectiveness' might come off particularly calm and cool in comparison to other types.) Of course, I'm generalizing, but hopefully you get the idea. Those who are more expressive of emotions directly can be somewhat 'blind' to validation in those forms, and usually come to see them clearer after they feel appreciated in a way that's easier for them to understand.

    I'm actually trying to think of tips on how to do this on those types that need a lot of verbal affirmation and feedback, because that's probably the toughest for ISTPs. It would help me too, thinking of some ways to fill that (because its a huge ENFJ need) without it being too forced. I know the ISTPs I know are careful what they say and have a sense of integrity that can cause difficulty in using words that might come off as mushy, dramatic or fake. I imagine if one isn't used to language of the unconscious a lot of it comes out sounding like forced poetry, and can make the ISTP feel ridiculous, inconsistent or vulnerable in a way they don't want to be. Also, like MDP2525 said, I think a lot of ISTPs might think that their feelings on a subject are already 'out there' & that putting extra words into describing or projecting them is either overkill or attention grabbing.

    I think there are probably some easy compromises though, like compliments. They can be done in a number of ways that don't come off as too 'over the top' & ISTPs can probably be comfortable giving them to someone who needs a lot of validation. On a side note, It's funny but the 'masculine form' of complimenting such as "good job" or "whoo-whoo" - which are likely more comfortable for ISTPs because they are less personal - are more likely to be accepted then personalized compliments which are usually rejected or reflected.

    The fact that probably two-thirds of compliments are not actually accepted ("you look good." - "No, I look fat.") might drive ISTPs a little nuts, because if given in 'gift' form this seems like rejection & might make the ISTP wonder what the point is. Deflecting or rejecting compliments usually ends when the receiver becomes comfortable not having to worry about their self-image or re-validate the giver, though. So the annoyance is likely temporary.

    I also think complimenting or giving verbal affirmation of any kind might be awkward because of the processing time it takes for an ISTP to decide it's worth it and genuine. Like MDP2525 has said, (and I've heard other ISTPs say something similar), by the time the expressions might be seen as genuine or worth saying, they seem out of place or no longer appropriate for the time / worth saying. If an ISTP could make attempts to recall thoughts of what could be genuinely validating if expressed, just as they might remember an act of service (like, "I should fix the ... later. X would like that."), they could limit the awkwardness of expressing it later by saying "I was thinking about ... (and then express the validation) today."

    I think I've complicated all that. Hopefully you'll get something out of it.

    Another type of validating (like in the post you mentioned that I commented on) another person is through quality one-on-one time. I think ISTPs are naturally not tuned to need a lot of this from their relationships or understand what it really means without a bit of wonder. ISTPs are action oriented and seem to value people as extensions or additions to the activities in their life. They also get comfortable with people and feel more relaxed in their presence, but the other person does not necessarily have to be in the spotlight or a part of the action.

    Those who get validation through "quality time" need the time to be focused on them or the relationship, to an extent. It validates the 'meaning' they have to you, or how important or 'liked' they are based on your wanting to be around them and know them or be liked by them. The activity itself could be used to do this - as in picking a setting or activity that the other person enjoys. The validation comes from consideration of their wants in this case. But generally I would say the quantity of time is usually most important if its needed for validation. "The more he/she cares, the more they'll want to be around me/talk to me, regardless of what we are doing." I'm just bringing the "quality time" validation up because it seems like it would be trouble for an ISTP in some relationships. Also, If a person is busy and can't spend too much time with someone who uses 'quality time' for validation, expressing that they "wish they could" be around them more is effective, I think.

    Are ISTPs good with physical touch? I get a lot of mixed information on this. I know some people find physical touch validating. To some it is the primary expression used to gauge feelings. I think, for me it is about 3rd on my list but quite necessary for romantic relationships. I've heard ISTPs can be very cuddly (mine had Aspergers so he wasn't for reasons other than type) and that ISTP dad's can be really physically loving to kids. But I've also heard that touch is similar to words and can be guarded against if it exposes to much or causes vulnerability.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  10. #40
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    To the original topic, I know I say this a lot, but this sounds more like an active listening problem than any problem regarding empathy. Listening is more than just hearing, it's interacting with the speaker so they know you understand what's being said (it's this whole thing they call reflective listening, for those googlers out there). So if you understand, it might be obvious internally, but you have to literally say something. And if you don't sympathize, it's okay to admit that too.

    Immediately offering a solution would be my natural answering method of choice, but it's misguided. It cuts off the listening phase for the responding phase (perhaps not allowing the person to finish their thought). And while you may think it *implies* "I understand your problem" when you offer a solution, it doesn't- and can instead sound like a form answer.

    (For something I didn't even do that well in, communication class changed my life more than just about any other course, I swear. Yay, for systems that explain stuff!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I know what I feel when I feel it but I don't always know why I feel it. That takes time to figure out and it usually happens over a period of time having the same recurring emotions given the same person/issue, etc. If I do take time to understand why I feel a certain way sometimes it feels like a dirty secret I'm keeping. Sometimes telling someone else feels like I'm betraying my own trust. (weird. I know) So. I guess this would be guarded.
    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I see myself as very emotional. My mind never shuts up. I feel things all the time and with intensity. Yet, it never reaches others. It's very difficult to translate to the outside and I am always surprised that I'm not transparent to others.

    Regarding the OP:

    How can we validate other people's emotions when we are so dismissive of our own? It's like...everything we aren't. The hardest thing I do is determine what feelings I react to and which ones I don't. I spend too much time on this stuff and by the time I determine something is worth reacting to - it's not worth reacting too.
    I totally agree with these two posts. It took me a really long time to learn how to accept emotions as they come. It's almost a relief those feelings that burst out into action before I even see them coming and start "thinking". I understand people's actions, I know how to read them, how to react- (and when my feelings burst out as actions, I can read that as well) but internally? It's a real process to suss out those really complex emotions.

    And by then, it not only feels like a "dirty secret"... I don't want to manipulate others with statements of my "feelings"- it's also like a burden, or a duty.

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