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[ESTP] ESTPs and Cheating

girlnamedbless

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May 19, 2007
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186
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Okay, so I was talking to one of my ESTP friends the other night. She's 21-years-old, and is in a two-year long relationship. She told me she doesn't really feel any attraction to him, so that's why she wants to break up with him. The only reason my friend won't totally end all ties with him is because he pays her phone bill and buys her things.
In addition, she's sort of in another relationship behind his back. She cheated on her boyfriend with this guy, but she told me she doesn't regret it at all. She said she doesn't care if her boyfriend found out about the cheating - she just doesn't want this new guy knowing that she has a boyfriend.
I also asked another ESTP friend I have about what he thinks of cheating. He said it was fine in "certain situations" but refused to explain himself.
What makes them this way? I've always thought that EVERYONE would disagree with cheating, but both of these ESTPs seem to think it's fine. The point of a relationship is to show your commitment to someone, plain an simple. If you aren't going to commit, then break it off.
Thoughts?
 

runvardh

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whatever, here's your cue.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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What makes them this way? I've always thought that EVERYONE would disagree with cheating, but both of these ESTPs seem to think it's fine. The point of a relationship is to show your commitment to someone, plain an simple. If you aren't going to commit, then break it off.
Thoughts?

One thing that does contribute to it is the typical bent for ESxP types to "game the system." Consistently, they really seem to love to learn how the system works, then exploit it for their own benefit. It's a big rush, emotionally; and they feel like they've accomplished something.

As long as they can say they were still playing "by the rules" in some way, or they had an official loophole to dart through, that gives them some justification (as opposed to some other types who appeal to moral abstractions and thus cannot "escape" them as easily...) ESxPs drift towards adhering to the letter of the law while breaking the intent, if there is something they really want... and it's all fair, because everyone else has the same option to look out for THEMSELVES as well, so it's not the ESxPs fault if those other people are losing out.

Of course, they still get pissed if someone does the same thing to them... but it's all part of the game and they usually flex and move onto the next conquest.

Upbringing, specific religions beliefs, and other rules that the ESxP has been brought to accept as valid of course are part of the framework of their thinking. (So if an ESxP comes to believe that cheating *is* wrong, then that is now one of their rules. Although they'll still tend to qualify it conveniently.)
 

white

~dangerous curves ahead~
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lol@run. You're courting death, you realise?

I think a failure to commit, but wanting to have it all, is linked to immaturity, insecurity and selfishness.

Nothing to do with any type per se, if balanced. Cheating can happen across all types. I hesitate to say one type is more prone to it than another, if a person is mature.

You could be coming from the viewpoint that a Sensate who likes having options open (P), would be able to rationalise their cheating with their T. But this is rather a stereotype.

A balanced ESTP would be able to engage their auxilliary Ti function and Fe tertiary to take into consideration others' feelings and have a sound internal values system. So while me-focused, it then comes from the angle that unless I can take care of myself, I cannot take care of others. Ni also means they'd recognise the likely impact of their actions.

It is more balanced, and not selfish and not out to hurt someone by seeking pure acts of sensory pleasure. And not wilfully hurt someone. ESTPs are impetuous, but they're not cruel.

So I doubt balanced ESTPs would seek to hurt others the way your friend(s) is(are) doing. Subterfuge is not their game, simply. They'd feel chaffed with the hidden-ness the games would require. They're immediately apparent. Their enthusiasm seeks to be recognised. This means the hidden affairs thing will not bring them the :D accolades?

I could believe they'd do a love them and leave them, but I doubt they'd accept the chains of a relationship if they wanted to swing - ESTPs do tend to be quite the charmers. I doubt many have difficulty finding willing partners. So a relationship won't make sense.

There's not much reason to be bound if they could get more outside. This also means once they are ready to commit, something deeper has touched them and they're not as likely to stray.

So :yes: Not a type thing. An immaturity/selfishness thing.
 

miss fortune

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Oh damn :doh: sounds like you've gotten a bad ESTP on your hands there! :sad:

I've never technically cheated on anyone, though I've been cheated on :(. I DID sleep with one SOs best friend, but after being cheated on 3 times I'd decided he must be thinking it was an open relationship. :blush:

I would never intentionally hurt anyone except for revenge. I accidentally hurt people all of the time without realizing it, and then feel bad about it once I've realized what I've done. I'm apparently a huge flirt without realizing it- even when in a relationship! I get carried away with things all too easily. I'm very very good at fleeing relationships whenever I get uncomfortable or feel fenced in.

All in all, I can say that ESTPs probably aren't the most fun people to be involved with sometimes, but most of us are not malicious and we really don't want to hurt anyone! :cry: I don't think that CHEATING is an ESTP thing anymore than any other type- My reasons for "cheating" were out of revenge in part, and in the other part because the other guy was nice, hot and only in town for one night! :laugh:- I don't consider it cheating though since I'd already been cheated on *shrug*- every type would have its reasons I'm guessing though :sad:
 

white

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:rofl1: whatevs. *lol*.

girlnamedbless. Jennifer hit the nail on the head when she said internal values system. I think that's why I'd said maturity counts. Younger ones would rely too much on Se. :yes: But as you grow older, you do realise some actions will work against you. So you start to drop them. And your values become firmer, and hopefully, the RIGHT ones.


:D


And as whatev's pointed out. All types will rationalise cheating if they want to.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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girlnamedbless. Jennifer hit the nail on the head when she said internal values system. I think that's why I'd said maturity counts. Younger ones would rely too much on Se.

That's probably what is ruling the behavior, yes. :)

With our ESFP, I have been watching him evolve. He still games everything he can*, but I have seen a developing Fi value system in him, where he will passionately stand up for his friends or confront behavior he finds immoral/hurtful from others. ESTPs supposedly develop Fe more easily, but the principle is still the same; they learn what is appropriate and what is inappropriate and see value in preserving it.

*Example: The little butthead today hadn't given his "girlfriend" her xmas present yet... and he had the audacity to suggest that it's so late now, perhaps he should just save it for valentines day!? Dolt. He only said that because it was easiest, and because he could weasel out of getting her another present for vday and save money for himself!

And as whatev's pointed out. All types will rationalise cheating if they want to.

Yup. I think it's just what the excuse is that changes.
 

INTJMom

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I think, generally speaking, ESTPs probably have the hardest time not cheating on their partner especially if they have an overly hedonistic worldview.
 
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Griffi97

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I've known three ESTP men. One was married to my sister for 7 years and was a very loyal husband. The second was a playboy - an open and honest playboy - until he got married at age 45 and now is a wonderful and devoted husband and father. And the last was a boyfriend of my mother's. She was an ISFP and they were crazy about eachother. He had been married in the past and caught his wife in bed with another man. After that he said he'd never marry again. He broke my mother's heart, and then continued to sleep with her for years while he had other girlfriends. He definitely cheated a lot. I have heard recently he is now married to a much younger woman and they live in separate homes and are very happy that way.

I think one thing I have noticed about these guys is that they are a lot of fun to be around, always making jokes, etc., and they have a lot of confidence in approaching women. And if they're very good-looking on top of it... So I think part of it is having more opportunity to sleep around.
 

Maverick

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My thoughts are that ESTP's are apt to have pretty liberal conceptions of relationships compared to SJ's; after all, they're SP's, Artisans, that value freedom and autonomy.

Apart from that, there is alot of variance among the type as to how they approach this. Some are freewheeling with most then commit when they find the "right" one, others have open relationships, some live in different places than there partner, etc.
 

FallsPioneer

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I have a 15-year old ESTP cousin, he's been in one relationship so far. He's against cheating, he was taught well, but he did say that the relationship got "boring" really fast, in like a matter of weeks, and the relationship lasted for around two months. He said that it "just ended."

"Are we still going out?"
"I don't know." (the girl)

He's a somewhat shy ESTP, too, but he's told me he's asked out a few girls after being egged on by his friends, rejected each time.

So I figure given the MBTI letters they might be more likely to cheat than others due to being "sensation-seeking" but it still comes down to the person.
 

INTJMom

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He's only 15.
One could argue he hasn't had time to cheat.
 

FallsPioneer

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You are right.

I just threw it in for the sake of perspective...besides, people are getting boyfriends/girlfriends and losing their virginity earlier and earlier.

It is probably too early anyway.
 

lauranna

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Interesting topic. I am an ISTP and i feel similarly that infidelity is ok in certain situations.
I mean i realise it is morally wrong and i never have the desire to hurt whoever i am with but i have been unfaithful in the past.

I think as a general rule an xSTP thinks of sex as purely physical. And finds it very easy to separate sex from love. They like games, they like risks. Why not sleep with someone else just for kicks? When i have done it there is absolutely no emotion involved. Its just a physical thing. Its just like going to do a sport with someone else- Fun. Also i have an innate ability to feel absolutely no guilt over my actions. So i would say that although this doesn't make it right, there is no point in telling the other person about it as that would be cruel and only serve to hurt them, particularly if they didn't understand. And i am never vindictive or looking to cause pain. So I guess if you are a particularly headonistic, thrill seeking member of the xSTP family then you would probably think in a similar way.
However, having said that, now i have grown up a bit, i am 100% honest when i start seeing someone and explain the openness and casuallness that i require. and then there are no issues- they either take it or leave it.

I mean i get all the stuff about monogamy and relationships being forever and all that. And i'm sure it works for some people. I just don't ever see it working for me.
 

Winds of Thor

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lol@run. You're courting death, you realise?

I think a failure to commit, but wanting to have it all, is linked to immaturity, insecurity and selfishness.

Nothing to do with any type per se, if balanced. Cheating can happen across all types. I hesitate to say one type is more prone to it than another, if a person is mature.

You could be coming from the viewpoint that a Sensate who likes having options open (P), would be able to rationalise their cheating with their T. But this is rather a stereotype.

A balanced ESTP would be able to engage their auxilliary Ti function and Fe tertiary to take into consideration others' feelings and have a sound internal values system. So while me-focused, it then comes from the angle that unless I can take care of myself, I cannot take care of others. Ni also means they'd recognise the likely impact of their actions.

It is more balanced, and not selfish and not out to hurt someone by seeking pure acts of sensory pleasure. And not wilfully hurt someone. ESTPs are impetuous, but they're not cruel.

So I doubt balanced ESTPs would seek to hurt others the way your friend(s) is(are) doing. Subterfuge is not their game, simply. They'd feel chaffed with the hidden-ness the games would require. They're immediately apparent. Their enthusiasm seeks to be recognised. This means the hidden affairs thing will not bring them the :D accolades?

I could believe they'd do a love them and leave them, but I doubt they'd accept the chains of a relationship if they wanted to swing - ESTPs do tend to be quite the charmers. I doubt many have difficulty finding willing partners. So a relationship won't make sense.

There's not much reason to be bound if they could get more outside. This also means once they are ready to commit, something deeper has touched them and they're not as likely to stray.

So :yes: Not a type thing. An immaturity/selfishness thing.


Fair enough, but a duck is a duck. Temperament, or distinguishing mental character, spells it out. They are inclined to make daily committments. They are not inclined to be in it for the Long-term. Their sensory function combined with their perception function and low J add up to being in a relationship for a physical payout, sustaining it not for commitment to the mate, but for sensationalist, physical payout. Not to be confused with commitment. How is that not?
 

"?"

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Uhh..... did anyone think to ask how the poster came to the conclusion that her friend was ESTP? Did this person take a test and confirm or is this another ameteur speed read laced with assumptions? I think that what has been said about the friend could go for most extraverted types and probably some IF types with dependency problems.
 
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Halla74

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Here's the deal. Outside of reckless, wanton lust as in a one night stand, most of the time people that cheat have a reason for it.

This does not excuse the act, or justify it, but it is a reality in many cases.

ESTPs are pretty damn attention hungry, we love to interact with our spouses, we love to play around and have fun. If we are ignored, shut out, or even worse given the cold shoulder time and time again we are prone to feeling rejected, lonely, and miserable. Feeling as such is completely against our nature, it is essentially death to our innately gleeful psyche. So, in such instances, one might seek warmth elsewhere if the fire they are near is cold too often, or too long.

I have read many times women cheat on their husbands/boyfriends because of a lack of emotional bond/emotional support. This can happen for men too. We are expected to give our all in this day and age and many times do not get near the kudos our forefathers gleened from their relationships. It's a sad fact of romance's evolution in the past 75 years.
 

FantailedWall

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Hmmm. Given me an interesting insight into certain things I never really thought about in respect to type-psychology....

One of my dearest friends is an ESTP, and whilst she believes cheating is terrible I distinctly remember her making a comment that I morally disagree with, but she can find nothing wrong with, being:
"If you cheat, and it means nothing - why would you tell your partner? It'll just cause them pain and it's not worth it."

Me, holding honesty in a very high regard kind of went: :shock:.
However, it's probably important to note that she had applied her personal brand of logic by adding that admitting to cheating is guilt-alleviation, and thus selfish. If it meant nothing, it'll just cause your partner pain to know and you're being selfish by needing to 'get your sin off your chest', so to speak.

(And no - this is not a comment as an aftermath of her cheating and needing to justify it to herself. And yes - she actually believes this)

Also interesting to note is our very different reasons on why we have trouble committing, and tend towards 'flings'. She gets bored with most guys after a couple of months - occasionally more. I, on the other hand, am super-picky in the first place due to my idealism - and whilst in a relationship, am always seeing the possibilities of 'what I'm missing out on'/searching for an idealistic 'more'.
Funny how such a trait we both possess appears so similar on the surface, but the unconscious reasoning behind it so different.
 

"?"

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Again, the cart is being put before the horse it sounds like in looking at the person and saying they must be ESTP based on stereotype. Girlnamedbless, how was it determined that your friend is indeed ESTP?
 

Poki

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I dont fault the person for cheating in this case, I fault them for hiding it. Dont just keep it going so you can get something out of it. They are just staying to get a free ride which to me is crap. While I may hide things the reason is different. In my value system this falls under the law "do not hide something so you can take advantage of someone elses kindness."
 
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