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  1. #1
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Default ESTPs and Cheating

    Okay, so I was talking to one of my ESTP friends the other night. She's 21-years-old, and is in a two-year long relationship. She told me she doesn't really feel any attraction to him, so that's why she wants to break up with him. The only reason my friend won't totally end all ties with him is because he pays her phone bill and buys her things.
    In addition, she's sort of in another relationship behind his back. She cheated on her boyfriend with this guy, but she told me she doesn't regret it at all. She said she doesn't care if her boyfriend found out about the cheating - she just doesn't want this new guy knowing that she has a boyfriend.
    I also asked another ESTP friend I have about what he thinks of cheating. He said it was fine in "certain situations" but refused to explain himself.
    What makes them this way? I've always thought that EVERYONE would disagree with cheating, but both of these ESTPs seem to think it's fine. The point of a relationship is to show your commitment to someone, plain an simple. If you aren't going to commit, then break it off.
    Thoughts?
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  2. #2
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    whatever, here's your cue.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    What makes them this way? I've always thought that EVERYONE would disagree with cheating, but both of these ESTPs seem to think it's fine. The point of a relationship is to show your commitment to someone, plain an simple. If you aren't going to commit, then break it off.
    Thoughts?
    One thing that does contribute to it is the typical bent for ESxP types to "game the system." Consistently, they really seem to love to learn how the system works, then exploit it for their own benefit. It's a big rush, emotionally; and they feel like they've accomplished something.

    As long as they can say they were still playing "by the rules" in some way, or they had an official loophole to dart through, that gives them some justification (as opposed to some other types who appeal to moral abstractions and thus cannot "escape" them as easily...) ESxPs drift towards adhering to the letter of the law while breaking the intent, if there is something they really want... and it's all fair, because everyone else has the same option to look out for THEMSELVES as well, so it's not the ESxPs fault if those other people are losing out.

    Of course, they still get pissed if someone does the same thing to them... but it's all part of the game and they usually flex and move onto the next conquest.

    Upbringing, specific religions beliefs, and other rules that the ESxP has been brought to accept as valid of course are part of the framework of their thinking. (So if an ESxP comes to believe that cheating *is* wrong, then that is now one of their rules. Although they'll still tend to qualify it conveniently.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
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    lol@run. You're courting death, you realise?

    I think a failure to commit, but wanting to have it all, is linked to immaturity, insecurity and selfishness.

    Nothing to do with any type per se, if balanced. Cheating can happen across all types. I hesitate to say one type is more prone to it than another, if a person is mature.

    You could be coming from the viewpoint that a Sensate who likes having options open (P), would be able to rationalise their cheating with their T. But this is rather a stereotype.

    A balanced ESTP would be able to engage their auxilliary Ti function and Fe tertiary to take into consideration others' feelings and have a sound internal values system. So while me-focused, it then comes from the angle that unless I can take care of myself, I cannot take care of others. Ni also means they'd recognise the likely impact of their actions.

    It is more balanced, and not selfish and not out to hurt someone by seeking pure acts of sensory pleasure. And not wilfully hurt someone. ESTPs are impetuous, but they're not cruel.

    So I doubt balanced ESTPs would seek to hurt others the way your friend(s) is(are) doing. Subterfuge is not their game, simply. They'd feel chaffed with the hidden-ness the games would require. They're immediately apparent. Their enthusiasm seeks to be recognised. This means the hidden affairs thing will not bring them the accolades?

    I could believe they'd do a love them and leave them, but I doubt they'd accept the chains of a relationship if they wanted to swing - ESTPs do tend to be quite the charmers. I doubt many have difficulty finding willing partners. So a relationship won't make sense.

    There's not much reason to be bound if they could get more outside. This also means once they are ready to commit, something deeper has touched them and they're not as likely to stray.

    So Not a type thing. An immaturity/selfishness thing.

  5. #5
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Oh damn sounds like you've gotten a bad ESTP on your hands there! :sad:

    I've never technically cheated on anyone, though I've been cheated on . I DID sleep with one SOs best friend, but after being cheated on 3 times I'd decided he must be thinking it was an open relationship.

    I would never intentionally hurt anyone except for revenge. I accidentally hurt people all of the time without realizing it, and then feel bad about it once I've realized what I've done. I'm apparently a huge flirt without realizing it- even when in a relationship! I get carried away with things all too easily. I'm very very good at fleeing relationships whenever I get uncomfortable or feel fenced in.

    All in all, I can say that ESTPs probably aren't the most fun people to be involved with sometimes, but most of us are not malicious and we really don't want to hurt anyone! I don't think that CHEATING is an ESTP thing anymore than any other type- My reasons for "cheating" were out of revenge in part, and in the other part because the other guy was nice, hot and only in town for one night! - I don't consider it cheating though since I'd already been cheated on *shrug*- every type would have its reasons I'm guessing though :sad:
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #6
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    whatevs. *lol*.

    girlnamedbless. Jennifer hit the nail on the head when she said internal values system. I think that's why I'd said maturity counts. Younger ones would rely too much on Se. But as you grow older, you do realise some actions will work against you. So you start to drop them. And your values become firmer, and hopefully, the RIGHT ones.





    And as whatev's pointed out. All types will rationalise cheating if they want to.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    girlnamedbless. Jennifer hit the nail on the head when she said internal values system. I think that's why I'd said maturity counts. Younger ones would rely too much on Se.
    That's probably what is ruling the behavior, yes.

    With our ESFP, I have been watching him evolve. He still games everything he can*, but I have seen a developing Fi value system in him, where he will passionately stand up for his friends or confront behavior he finds immoral/hurtful from others. ESTPs supposedly develop Fe more easily, but the principle is still the same; they learn what is appropriate and what is inappropriate and see value in preserving it.

    *Example: The little butthead today hadn't given his "girlfriend" her xmas present yet... and he had the audacity to suggest that it's so late now, perhaps he should just save it for valentines day!? Dolt. He only said that because it was easiest, and because he could weasel out of getting her another present for vday and save money for himself!

    And as whatev's pointed out. All types will rationalise cheating if they want to.
    Yup. I think it's just what the excuse is that changes.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I think, generally speaking, ESTPs probably have the hardest time not cheating on their partner especially if they have an overly hedonistic worldview.
    Last edited by INTJMom; 01-07-2008 at 02:19 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    Senior Member Griffi97's Avatar
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    I've known three ESTP men. One was married to my sister for 7 years and was a very loyal husband. The second was a playboy - an open and honest playboy - until he got married at age 45 and now is a wonderful and devoted husband and father. And the last was a boyfriend of my mother's. She was an ISFP and they were crazy about eachother. He had been married in the past and caught his wife in bed with another man. After that he said he'd never marry again. He broke my mother's heart, and then continued to sleep with her for years while he had other girlfriends. He definitely cheated a lot. I have heard recently he is now married to a much younger woman and they live in separate homes and are very happy that way.

    I think one thing I have noticed about these guys is that they are a lot of fun to be around, always making jokes, etc., and they have a lot of confidence in approaching women. And if they're very good-looking on top of it... So I think part of it is having more opportunity to sleep around.

  10. #10
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    My thoughts are that ESTP's are apt to have pretty liberal conceptions of relationships compared to SJ's; after all, they're SP's, Artisans, that value freedom and autonomy.

    Apart from that, there is alot of variance among the type as to how they approach this. Some are freewheeling with most then commit when they find the "right" one, others have open relationships, some live in different places than there partner, etc.

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