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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    Thanks. I'm just an inferior sensor after all.
    And a Euro, no less.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowning View Post
    And a Euro, no less.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    Cheer up!

    You can always house-clean... or castigate others' behaviour... or middle-manage a company...

  4. #54
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Yes, I am thinking in terms of theory and not actual people you meet on the streets.

    ISTP is one of the most intuitive sensors, so what I said concerning Shimpei need not apply to you.

    It is not true that ISJs have a better use of Ni than NTPs.

    This is the order that our functions tend to develop in..

    Ti
    Ne
    Te
    Ni
    Si
    Se
    Fe
    Fi
    Blue, I have never seen that function process. Where did it come from? Beebe's shows INTP to be Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and so on, and Thomson's Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on....

  5. #55
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Blue, I have never seen that function process. Where did it come from? Beebe's shows INTP to be Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and so on, and Thomson's Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on....

    Think about it... when our first function grows... the Ti and Te grow parallely...one just goes faster than the other... same goes for all functions... both sides grow simultaneously..

    And as for second

    Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on

    Here is the reason why Fi seems so high up on the list... Ti does ethics also... and analyzes a like the Fi does when it comes to ethics.. this is where they share a commonality... Introverted Judgment. The Fi isnt really there, it is just the shadow of Ti. This is why so many INFPs think they have a Ti, but they really dont, its just their Fi working like a Ti in many respects as it is also an introverted judgment function.

    Se should be only a little weaker than the Se, but still clearly stronger than F, as F is the inferior function..

    Se may appear high on the list, but we should remember that it probably is not there, it is probably just the shadow of the Ne, like Fi is of Ti.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  6. #56
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Think about it... when our first function grows... the Ti and Te grow parallely...one just goes faster than the other... same goes for all functions... both sides grow simultaneously...
    I actually thought about it when I first saw your theory. This person would be totally ungrounded in reality and incapable of existing with other people. They have a name for people hardwired in such a manner "Autism".

    The functions are set up for a natural balance which allows each type to run the gamut of all the functions. The type you allude to would have no sensing or feeling functions available.

  7. #57
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I actually thought about it when I first saw your theory. This person would be totally ungrounded in reality and incapable of existing with other people. They have a name for people hardwired in such a manner "Autism".

    The functions are set up for a natural balance which allows each type to run the gamut of all the functions. The type you allude to would have no sensing or feeling functions available.

    Not really.. we still use Sensing and Feeling as NTs... we always use all functions.. its just that they would be weaker (for an INTP) than the backside of the T and the N...(Just because Ni and Te are ahead of all sensing and feeling functions it does not mean that those functions are not there at all)
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #58
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Blue, I have never seen that function process. Where did it come from? Beebe's shows INTP to be Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and so on, and Thomson's Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on....
    Re function order:

    I don't know anything about these random people's function order theories, but logically, would it not be different depending on the relative strengths of the four functions? (Beyond the Ti-Ne-Si-Fe basic order, that is)

    For example, an INTP who has a weaker T (ie leaning towards INFP) would have Fi higher in the function order than one with a very strong T. An INTP with a weak P would have Te (and probably Ni) higher in the order than an INTP with a strong P. And so on. So I don't think there can really be one function order for all INTPs.

    Does this not make sense?

  9. #59
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Re function order:

    I don't know anything about these random people's function order theories, but logically, would it not be different depending on the relative strengths of the four functions? (Beyond the Ti-Ne-Si-Fe basic order, that is)

    For example, an INTP who has a weaker T (ie leaning towards INFP) would have Fi higher in the function order than one with a very strong T. An INTP with a weak P would have Te (and probably Ni) higher in the order than an INTP with a strong P. And so on. So I don't think there can really be one function order for all INTPs.

    Does this not make sense?
    Yes, it would make sense.

    However MBTI doesn't express strengths in gradients, you are either one or the other and your function order is set absolutely from that. So in terms of ordering, you either believe in MBTI (ie: It's not even Jung that defined it this way!) or you don't believe in funtional ordering... the step from there would be to work with Jungs big three and those theories.

  10. #60
    Member Alesia's Avatar
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    Okay, while I've got my Keirsy book out. I think this is what Seawolf was referring to. Keirsy says in Please Understand Me II, that SPs have a time orientation to the present, SJs have a time orientation to the past, NFs have an orientation to tommorrow, and NTs have time intervals.

    It's just where you tend to focus your attention.

    Like:
    "Far more than the rest of us, Artisans live and act in the present. After all, they tell us, "tommorrow never comes" and yesterday is "water over the dam". To an SP, there's no time like the present, so we'd better make the most of it, better seize the day, strike while the iron is hot, or get while the getting's good. Watch a thorough-going SP athlete in action. He or she acts to a great extent in the now, focusing easily on this time, not that tiem, on this stroke, not the last one or the next one."
    SJs tend to focus more on the past:
    "SJs are keepers of tradition of custom, of continuity with the past. This means that SJs do not usually focus on the now, as do the opportunistic SPs. Nor on tomorrow, as do the romantic NFs, and certainly not on timeless intervals, as do the scientific NTs. Rather, SJs are more inclined to turn their thoughts to yesterday, to look fondly upon the good old days when people earned thier living, when ....."

    "This reverence for the past perhaps explains why, more than any of the other types, SJs are creatures of habit, following faithfully the same routines in their dayly lives." "Gaurdians (SJs) often come to focus their traditionalism on the family. SJs prize family possessions, the longer possessed the better, and they take great satisfaction in looking after family property" " But even in the community at large, Guardians have a great and lasting respect for age. They hate to see old buildings torn down, even old trees cut down - as though age, by itself, confers importance, a certain rank in the social hierachy."
    And then he goes on and gives a chart about how each types orientation is toward the Present, Future, Past, Place.

    Orientation Idealists Artisans Guardians Rationals

    Present Altruistic Practical Dutiful Pragmatic
    Future Credulous Optimistic Pessimistic Skeptical
    Past Mystical Cynical Stoical Relativistic
    Place Pathways Here Gateways Intersections
    Time Tommorrow Now Yesterday Intervals
    And with that, I'm tired of typing. And they all said

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