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  1. #41
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    to KLessard:

    what's funny about your argument there is that you're talking about one of my few redeeming qualities

    overall, I'll admit to being a pretty horrible person by conventional definitions- if there's a hell, I'm pretty much guarenteed a nice place at the table there- but you know what? I'm loyal. You fuck with someone I love and I will make you pay. I will stick by those that I love through the bad times as well as the good times and they can screw me over and I'll still be there (within reason... fuck up a few too many times and you get put on probation ). Once I've decided that someone is worthy of my loyalty it's hard to budge.

    Funny, the one person who abused that the most was an NFJ... and he was never willing to trust me no matter how committed I was- it hurt
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I understand, and hope you realize I am not "hatin." In my book, expectaions are bad, especially because they hagve a way of interjecting themselves before enough exposure between two parties has ensueds to warrant real understanding.


    Have you ever considered that maybe after cycle after cycle of those feelings not being requitted, they make an assessment of how to expend their energy and change gears for the sake of self preservation? Maybe you hurt their feelings> Seriously. Our (SPs) feelingas are deep, and when hurt, it is not easy for us to make sense of it and to move forward...



    Or maybe once they felt that their feelings were groomed to have no faith in them being returned, they made the choice to move on?



    Yes, it is. It is also hurtful and insulting for another person to make judgements on you based on non-relevant experience.



    Don't fool yourself. We can be rolling stones with regard to our pursuit of careers, academia, or hobbies/interests, yet have a strong and devout sense of love and commitment provided we have selected the right person in life.

    Just out of curiousity, what are textbook INFJs described as? Do you agree with that definitiion? Why or why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    to KLessard:

    what's funny about your argument there is that you're talking about one of my few redeeming qualities

    overall, I'll admit to being a pretty horrible person by conventional definitions- if there's a hell, I'm pretty much guarenteed a nice place at the table there- but you know what? I'm loyal. You fuck with someone I love and I will make you pay. I will stick by those that I love through the bad times as well as the good times and they can screw me over and I'll still be there (within reason... fuck up a few too many times and you get put on probation ). Once I've decided that someone is worthy of my loyalty it's hard to budge.

    Funny, the one person who abused that the most was an NFJ... and he was never willing to trust me no matter how committed I was- it hurt
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #43
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    to KLessard:

    what's funny about your argument there is that you're talking about one of my few redeeming qualities

    overall, I'll admit to being a pretty horrible person by conventional definitions- if there's a hell, I'm pretty much guarenteed a nice place at the table there- but you know what? I'm loyal. You fuck with someone I love and I will make you pay. I will stick by those that I love through the bad times as well as the good times and they can screw me over and I'll still be there (within reason... fuck up a few too many times and you get put on probation ). Once I've decided that someone is worthy of my loyalty it's hard to budge.

    Funny, the one person who abused that the most was an NFJ... and he was never willing to trust me no matter how committed I was- it hurt
    What makes you choose to commit to a person? What makes you decide that a person is worthy of your loyalty? I see SPs do commit to a few. A few.

  4. #44
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    What makes you choose to commit to a person? What makes you decide that a person is worthy of your loyalty? I see SPs do commit to a few. A few.
    My family, my friends, my signifigant other... if I respect you enough to desire to spend my time with you and help you out, you can take that as a sign that I'm loyal to you.

    Love me despite the fact I'm me and you will have my steady support, basically
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #45
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I wrote this based on experience, not just plain judgment. I know it is wrong to judge without evidence. I try hard not to. I have trusted hopefully, even after being hurt and disappointed. I have idealized, and I suppose my expectations were too high, not too low. I have believed in the unique ISFP kindness. I have believed so and had great hopes about it.

    I think SPs sometimes choose not to care anymore or they move on. They leave you there and expect you to move on too. They had offered kindness or friendship, had kept it going for a time (even a long time), but once they choose to focus on something else...

    Whichever type you are, I think it is always hurtful and insulting to be let down.

    Textbook SPs are described as rolling stones. That's theory. I'm not saying all SPs are like this.

    All this is vague though. You didn't answer my question about what you're talking about specifically when it comes to commitment.
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  6. #46
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    I was thinking of commitment in friendship. How do you see it? Do you keep friends for a lifetime or only for a season?

    Let me also quote shortnsweet's First post:
    "Showing up to things late, not showing up to class, my wandering eye when it comes to relationships, getting sick of jobs quickly, and moving annually. I always think I am justified in everything I do. But over time, it appears that I am not committed to anything."

    Being careful in all those things show people you are committed and respect them. Not showing up or changing your mind and not telling the other person is disrespectful. Accumulate this on many occasions, and your friend or acquaintance will feel hurt and wonder if you are trustworthy.

  7. #47
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I've been friends with my best friend for about 8 years now... even though she lives about 13 hours away

    Some of my other friends I've had since kindergarden or so... thoughts being, if we can still connect after all of those years you're worth the loyalty

    If we drift apart, I'll still stick up for you when the opportunity arises, but it won't be quite the same
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I was thinking of commitment in friendship. How do you see it? Do you keep friends for a lifetime or only for a season?

    Let me also quote shortnsweet's First post:
    "Showing up to things late, not showing up to class, my wandering eye when it comes to relationships, getting sick of jobs quickly, and moving annually. I always think I am justified in everything I do. But over time, it appears that I am not committed to anything."

    Being careful in all those things show people you are committed and respect them. Not showing up or changing your mind and not telling the other person is disrespectful. Accumulate this on many occasions, and your friend or acquaintance will feel hurt and wonder if you are trustworthy.
    Allowing a person to be who they are is respect. Its how you respect someone for who they are. Defining how someone should be is not respecting someone, its demanding respect from them in certain ways.

    To me it goes something along the lines of "I respect your decision what ever it may be" that is respect. Commitment is I will stand by you no matter what. I have commited to my wife, that come he**, high water, divorce, seperation, no matter what, I am here for her. Period. I stand to question how many people know what commitment is, what respect is.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #49
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Allowing a person to be who they are is respect. Its how you respect someone for who they are. Defining how someone should be is not respecting someone, its demanding respect from them in certain ways.

    To me it goes something along the lines of "I respect your decision what ever it may be" that is respect. Commitment is I will stand by you no matter what. I have commited to my wife, that come he**, high water, divorce, seperation, no matter what, I am here for her. Period. I stand to question how many people know what commitment is, what respect is.
    I agree, but the examples given were from a SP questioning herself, not from me. She declares "I always think I am justified in everything I do," but realizes there might something wrong with this because of the outcomes in her life. I thought this post was about helping SPs getting a better understanding of commitment, not justifying their behaviour.

    If being who you are causes people pain, you might want to consider improving your behaviour and having more consideration for the other person's side of the coin. You will only become a better person. Expecting the people you love to be their best is not disrespectful. On the contrary. But I believe in grace and unconditional love.

  10. #50
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I don't think this is type related. I've had issues with commitment too - to jobs, school, relationships... I suspect it has more to do with my fractured childhood than a character flaw, type related or not.
    People come into adulthood with certain expectations, and those are partially (maybe mostly) driven by prior experience, not inborne type. No one is born with certain attitudes or behaviors...

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