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[SP] SPs, do you consider yourself...

Grayscale

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,965
MBTI Type
ISTP
I've found that they can be philosophical, but you have to be really sneaky about getting it into their lives. The best way is to make it relevant to them. They don't see how it's relevant to their lives because it isn't immediately obvious how it can be applied. So you take them around in real life, and show them working examples of things we have that stemmed from philosophical understandings (but just explain it, don't let them know it's related to that at first or they'll shut down). Eventually they'll start to realize that these patterns of thought really are relevant to furthering our understanding of reality, and dispelling perceptual illusions. It can take quite a while, and you have to be patient with them, letting them do something else if they start to get bored.

What do you think?

i see "philosophy" as one end of a gradient... the other being science.

to put it simply, i do not mind philosophy that is so far into the black that all it has almost no correlation to reality, i just have a hard time benefiting from seeing other people do it. i even enjoy participating in it myself when im in the mood... but past mental masturbation, i dont think it serves a purpose.

what i do hate, though, is when a "philosophical" topic is grounded enough for me to know that it's far too useless to get a return on the effort required to discuss it.
 

mcmartinez84

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
650
MBTI Type
ISTP
I totally agree with Grayscale and Randomnity.

It's one of those things that just has no point. Thinking about whether I exist or not, why I'm here, my ultimate purpose, what truth really is... Knowing the answers won't help me be better at life, as far as I can see. But sometimes I can't see past the tip of my nose. Either way, I figure with people having thought about these things for thousands of years before I was around - and they STILL don't have answers...wtf makes me think I'll come up with anything better? I got nothin' and move on to think about something else.

I took a Professional Ethics class and while it was a lot of fun to hear my teacher tell us we all had shitty and inconsistent ethics, I found that ultimately it served little purpose.
When I talk to philosophy majors and read crap that famous (knowingly shitty) philosophers have written... It ends up frustrating me to no end. They can't just take life for what they see it as. I see land, I walk on it. I feel a breeze, I breathe it in. Does there always have to be something else? I don't think so.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
IMO, many famous philosophers led boring, crappy lives. I'll bet it was for those reasons that they started searching for depth and subsequently fabricated it when there wasn't any to be found.
 

Seanan

Procrastinating
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
954
MBTI Type
INTJ
They can't just take life for what they see it as. I see land, I walk on it. I feel a breeze, I breathe it in. Does there always have to be something else? I don't think so.

Like they did before Descartes? What would the world be had he thought that way? Philosophy affects your entire life in its application.
 

mcmartinez84

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
650
MBTI Type
ISTP
Like they did before Descartes? What would the world be had he thought that way? Philosophy affects your entire life in its application.

That's for other people to waste their time on. When they come to some conclusion, they can let me know what it is.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
I am sure that most of you have seen this:
...
With INFJs, ranked first among all the types in using spiritual/philosophical coping resources.

...
I live with 2 ISTPs, a 17 year old and a 49 year old, and I beg to differ with this conclusion.
I would like to see "spiritual/philosophical coping resources" defined.
I'm curious as to exactly how they asked this question.
 

rhinosaur

Just a statistic
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,464
MBTI Type
INTP
I don't really enjoy philosophizing about stuff that cannot be answered. When my train of thought takes me down one of these paths, I think "well, that's a dead end." And that's the end of that.

Regarding spiritual matters, I do find it worthwhile to think about nature, god, life, etc., but I don't categorize that under philosophy.

But I'm not entirely sure I'm ISTP. I just changed it from INTP.
 

alicia91

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
671
I don't really enjoy philosophizing about stuff that cannot be answered. When my train of thought takes me down one of these paths, I think "well, that's a dead end." And that's the end of that.

Exactly!

I understand philosophy to some degree (took 2 years of it in college), but what's the point? On the other hand I have some interest in religious, scientific philosophies/theories, ethics etc. But I don't get into 'how do we know we are not just an illusion?' and any of that crap.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
I live with 2 ISTPs, a 17 year old and a 49 year old, and I beg to differ with this conclusion.
I would like to see "spiritual/philosophical coping resources" defined.
I'm curious as to exactly how they asked this question.

I tried meditation but it didn't work for me. I couldn't help but fee like a pretentious ass.
 

millerm277

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
978
MBTI Type
ISTP
With INFJs, ranked first among all the types in using spiritual/philosophical coping resources.

I want the definition of this as well, because I am not a spiritual person in the least (Atheist), and I dislike philosophy.

I understand philosophy to some degree (took 2 years of it in college), but what's the point? On the other hand I have some interest in religious, scientific philosophies/theories, ethics etc.

Same here.

But I don't get into 'how do we know we are not just an illusion?' and any of that crap.

I hate that sort of thing, mostly because I think the answers are impossible to prove or disprove, and even if they could be, they wouldn't serve any useful purpose.
 

Randomnity

insert random title here
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
9,485
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
...I think the answers are impossible to prove or disprove, and even if they could be, they wouldn't serve any useful purpose.
Annnd that's pretty much exactly why I have no interest in philosophy (at least the kind that's like that).
 

JustDave

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Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
Absolutely.

Theoretical subjects are excruciatingly boring.

In fact, the main reasons I earned a degree in Information Systems were:
- It's lucrative.
- It's practical.
- It's forces you to think but for a purpose.
 

SahlainAnteth

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
41
MBTI Type
ISTP
Hmm. No, not really. I do find it interesting--but I find most anything interesting (I'm a data junkie who could go for hours on Wikipedia).

I was required to take several philosophy, political philosophy, and literary criticism classes for my degree (Taming the Prince rocks!). I loved just sitting and sort of absorbing the lectures, but I hated writing papers or essay exams for them and the meal table debates of the philosopher wanna-bes were just plain idiotic wastes of time.

Metaphysics was interesting, for example, but not when it resulted in a half-hour circular class debate that resolved nothing and made me want to scream with boredom & frustration. That class and the upper-lever Lit. Crit. class were exercises in Herculean patience & self control. I had to suppress many a mental image of slapping people back-side the head during class.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
... but not when it resulted in a half-hour circular class debate that resolved nothing and made me want to scream with boredom & frustration.

You just perfectly summed up the one real philosophy class I took in college. In retrospect it's beyond me how I resisted the urge to choke slam my classmates.

BTW, Wikipedia rocks. I had many "lost evenings" on that site.
 

millerm277

New member
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Feb 1, 2008
Messages
978
MBTI Type
ISTP
That class and the upper-lever Lit. Crit. class were exercises in Herculean patience & self control. I had to suppress many a mental image of slapping people back-side the head during class.

The word "symbolism" makes me want to hurt someone.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
This goes back to the fact that I say what we mean. No hidden meanings, symbolisms, euphomisms or other foggy BS. Is it unreasonable for me to expect the same from others? I don't think so.

[Edit] As a group ISTPs are very confident. IMO, that's why we are blunt and straight-forward in speech.
 

mcmartinez84

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
650
MBTI Type
ISTP
I hate poetry, too! :hi: :hug:

Robert Frost and William Shakespeare were my nemeses in high school lit. I thank my lucky stars I never had to take any poetry after that.

Any guy who thinks about writing serious poetry for me instantly turns me off. Even if he just wants me to read a poem someone else wrote - blegh.
 
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