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  1. #11
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    funny... one of my ISTJs best friends is an unhealthy ESFP... he's a lot of fun to hang out with, but I've always thought that their friendship seemed rather one sided- the ESFP will talk about his life and problems and the ISTJ will tell him how to solve them... they've even gotten to the point where my ISTJ has control over the ESFPs finances in order to help him get his life together

    I've always wondered about HOW they are friends when they have such a weird friendship (and the ESFPs ESFJ fiance has expressed the same amazement)
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #12
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    funny... one of my ISTJs best friends is an unhealthy ESFP... he's a lot of fun to hang out with, but I've always thought that their friendship seemed rather one sided- the ESFP will talk about his life and problems and the ISTJ will tell him how to solve them... they've even gotten to the point where my ISTJ has control over the ESFPs finances in order to help him get his life together

    I've always wondered about HOW they are friends when they have such a weird friendship (and the ESFPs ESFJ fiance has expressed the same amazement)
    Wow, that sounds really similar to my friendship with the ESFP in question. If they're like me and her, then they're still friends because your ISTJ would much rather solve other people's problems than have someone try to solve his own. Honestly, sometimes it's a nice break being around my ESFP friend, because I know that I'm not going to end up talking about my feelings, leaving me free to be detached and aloof, which is a lot more comfortable.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  3. #13
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I suspect that's one of the main reasons for their friendship! The ISTJ doesn't have to deal with talking about his job or his feelings or having anyone prying into his life- he likes solving problems and the unhealthy ESFP friend is generally a walking ball of problems!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #14
    Senior Member LeafAndSky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    why do I get nothing in return???"
    I don't have any insight for you but wanted to let you know that you're not the only one. I have a situation that's similar regarding the main problem (although other aspects are different) so am reading with interest.

  5. #15
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    So, since you said before that you don't relate at all, does that mean that everything I was bitching about in the first post is just specific to her? In which case, how do normal, healthy ESFPs express how they care for someone in their everyday life?
    I think this could apply to some SFP's. We tend to be really self centered and shallow if we're not careful.

    "Socially awkward" SFP sounds like an oxy moron. (I don't doubt you, but have some trouble picturing it.) People have different ways of expressing how they feel about how they care for someone. If she wants to spend a lot of time with you, that's likely showing how she cares for you. Some people, (ESFP or not) talk about themselves just to break silences and "me" is a topic that everyone knows the most about. Some people don't know how to listen, and also want to make themselves sound interesting to you. They want to sell themselves to you. That is why she is probably talking about herself a lot. (That part is something I can relate to.) A lonely, socially awkward ESFP is also likely going to want someone to talk to- (not someone to listen to.)

    I'm not sure about normal, healthy ESFP's. I don't know many. I personally try to spend a lot of time with the person I care about. I call them regularly and try to get together with them. If it's a "best friend" the conversations tend to go beyond surface. Though it might not be politics, religion, and theory, it still tends to reach a greater depth than what I did last weekend. I have a healthy ESFP "best friend". We usually go out somewhere, and then we usually talk about what's been going on lately, and then it goes further in depth, (though conversations usually tend to stay people/thing/event focused) and we listen a lot to each other and ask each other a lot of questions. I can't speak for all healthy ESFP close friend type relationships. but just us two.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  6. #16
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I know she means well, and I know that she's socially awkward (e.g. she spent at least half of our high school prom sitting at a table, drinking sparkling cider, and wallowing in thoughts like "I'm so awkward. No one likes me. Why do I even go to these things?"), so she presumably has very good excuses for acting the way she does, but I still really, really, really want this problem to be solved one way or another. But I don't want to hurt her feelings, so I can't use my preferred method of problem solving (i.e. getting the job done quickly and directly).
    What exactly is the problem? That you don't find her as valuable (ick... for lack of a better word) as she finds you? Or that you want a deeper friendship but don't know how? Or you want to like her more but cannot? That she is socially awkward?



    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I give and give and give, so why do I get nothing in return?
    It seems like you do get some things in return...
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Honestly, sometimes it's a nice break being around my ESFP friend, because I know that I'm not going to end up talking about my feelings, leaving me free to be detached and aloof, which is a lot more comfortable.
    ...just that maybe you want more than that from the relationship?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  7. #17
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    as a note... theres a BIG difference between a healthy ESFP and an unhealthy ESFP... same as with any type really

    were I unhealthy I'd be doling out swirlies in the graveyard or something
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #18
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    as a note... theres a BIG difference between a healthy ESFP and an unhealthy ESFP... same as with any type really

    were I unhealthy I'd be doling out swirlies in the graveyard or something
    Aw sweet Whatever, you're an SP I knew it!
    And 7W8, even better.

    (end derail)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  9. #19
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    What exactly is the problem? That you don't find her as valuable (ick... for lack of a better word) as she finds you? Or that you want a deeper friendship but don't know how? Or you want to like her more but cannot? That she is socially awkward?
    I should say up front that I agree with whatever, and therefore I'm not judging all ESFPs based on this one friend. So I don't mean to be attacking your type, and I don't mean to seem like this cold, heartless person who wants to throw a friend to the wayside because of one behavioral flaw. I'm not like that, and it makes me sad that people might think that about me. So I'll try to clear things up.

    The problem is that I like there to be reciprocity in friendships, and there isn't any in my friendship with this particular ESFP. I would like to fix that somehow, but I'm not sure how - although I figure that understanding her a little better would be the first step. The part that confused me was that she considers me to be her best friend, and yet it feels to me like she's using me as someone to vent at (which is another reason why the friendship doesn't feel reciprocal). So I'm confused as to what's going on in her mind here. Is it that none of her friends are close, and even though I'm not a close friend, I'm the best she's got? Is it that, because she's a little awkward, she simply doesn't understand the value of letting the other person have a chance to talk? --> Teenagers do that a lot, and she's still a teenager, so maybe she's just more immature, and unable to understand that it isn't "all about her"? Or, finally, maybe she really does care about me, and she shows it, but because the way she shows it is something I don't recognize, I just had no idea that she was showing it.

    That's my answer to your questions. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in the OP... because I'm not an objective observer, I'm unable to speak objectively about it, which is why I rambled a little there. (Also, I haven't talked to anyone irl about this problem yet, so I haven't had time to do the extraverted thing, i.e. collect my thoughts as I speak, since I haven't spoken about it.)

    It seems like you do get some things in return...

    ...just that maybe you want more than that from the relationship?
    Talking to her about her is fine to a degree - sometimes I enjoy it - but it only works in small doses. That's why we were better friends in high school than now - because our interactions were limited to relatively brief (say, 30-minute) chats during class or lunch break. But when it gets to be an hour-long phone conversation... and it's all about her... and she won't really acknowledge anything that I say about myself except for a transitional word like "yeah"... then that gets infuriating. You understand.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    "Socially awkward" SFP sounds like an oxy moron. (I don't doubt you, but have some trouble picturing it.)
    It really has more to do with her interests. She could spend hours talking animatedly to someone about Soviet Russia, and she could be very entertaining and putting on a little show with it, but most people don't care as much about that sort of topic. And for whatever reason, she doesn't realize that, instead of wallowing in self-pity when jokes or topics fail, she should go out of her way to find new ones to talk about, and fix the problem. She really does get along well with people - so I guess she isn't technically socially awkward - but she's awkward in general.

    Some people, (ESFP or not) talk about themselves just to break silences and "me" is a topic that everyone knows the most about. Some people don't know how to listen, and also want to make themselves sound interesting to you. They want to sell themselves to you. That is why she is probably talking about herself a lot. (That part is something I can relate to.) A lonely, socially awkward ESFP is also likely going to want someone to talk to- (not someone to listen to.)
    This makes a lot of sense. Definitely a contender, in terms of theories here.

    I'm not sure about normal, healthy ESFP's. I don't know many. I personally try to spend a lot of time with the person I care about. I call them regularly and try to get together with them. If it's a "best friend" the conversations tend to go beyond surface. Though it might not be politics, religion, and theory, it still tends to reach a greater depth than what I did last weekend. I have a healthy ESFP "best friend". We usually go out somewhere, and then we usually talk about what's been going on lately, and then it goes further in depth, (though conversations usually tend to stay people/thing/event focused) and we listen a lot to each other and ask each other a lot of questions. I can't speak for all healthy ESFP close friend type relationships. but just us two.
    If that's the model, then my ESFP friend and I are totally doing it wrong. But I think I knew that already...
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #20
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The problem is that I like there to be reciprocity in friendships, and there isn't any in my friendship with this particular ESFP. I would like to fix that somehow, but I'm not sure how - although I figure that understanding her a little better would be the first step. The part that confused me was that she considers me to be her best friend, and yet it feels to me like she's using me as someone to vent at (which is another reason why the friendship doesn't feel reciprocal). So I'm confused as to what's going on in her mind here. Is it that none of her friends are close, and even though I'm not a close friend, I'm the best she's got? Is it that, because she's a little awkward, she simply doesn't understand the value of letting the other person have a chance to talk? --> Teenagers do that a lot, and she's still a teenager, so maybe she's just more immature, and unable to understand that it isn't "all about her"? Or, finally, maybe she really does care about me, and she shows it, but because the way she shows it is something I don't recognize, I just had no idea that she was showing it.



    It really has more to do with her interests. She could spend hours talking animatedly to someone about Soviet Russia, and she could be very entertaining and putting on a little show with it, but most people don't care as much about that sort of topic. And for whatever reason, she doesn't realize that, instead of wallowing in self-pity when jokes or topics fail, she should go out of her way to find new ones to talk about, and fix the problem. She really does get along well with people - so I guess she isn't technically socially awkward - but she's awkward in general.




    If that's the model, then my ESFP friend and I are totally doing it wrong. But I think I knew that already...

    Yes, which supports Whatever's statement- healthy ESFP's and unhealthy ESFP's are very different.

    My bargain is that if she's a teenage ESFP who calls you her best friend cares about you- and if she doesn't have many other friends, I would venture to say that she needs you!

    I'm not sure if she can change, though. ESFP's are terrible with criticism, so you can't necissarily say, "hey, you don't listen to me!" I'm not really sure how you would approach that.

    If I were you, I would adopt her. I'm an F so I would take a charity case, knowing that I would get little in return. I think that at this point, you guys probably aren't on an equal plane.

    Is there a reason that you want to be friends with her? Just feeling bad for her, perhaps? Maybe you can just gain some satisfaction from knowing that you're there for her. With your ESTJness, you might even be able to help her organize her thoughts and help her become a better person.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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