[ISFP] The ISFP Thread

[KDude]

That intense study period I suppose is somewhat "Te"? Maybe? I know I could get better at music by adding more of the Te approach, but I don't. I had more of that approach when I was younger.. I never practiced exercises much, but I'd dedicate myself to learn certain songs. Kind of like rites of passage or something before I could wing it. Kind of modest goals on that end, I guess.

I'd like to do this with training actually. Learn fundamentals, and I think I could probably learn as I go along.

 

[wolfy]

I don't know, I read this old pdf excerpt from a book on Se that had that as part of Se. Learning all about the context. I am guessing it is that and and the other stuff rolled up. It is better not to try and separate them too much in your head. Figure them out and then let go, you'll get it.

I was getting at that the other day in my blog too. The great isfp musicians, they went through a period of immersion. It is like that bit on Presley in that Personality book.

 

[wolfy]

It is like you need to learn all about the context, to experience more, to have more to dip into. It dynamically moves from you to what you are doing to back again. There is no objective comparison, it is just, does this feel right.

So I think the key is to immerse yourself in experience.

 

[KDude]

I'll probably remain in immersion I really just like messing around for myself. If I could, I'd shine more by adding to other people's ideas. I like hearing other people's songs, and seeing what I can do with them (if they let me!). Unfortunately, I've lost touch with some musicians.. but anyways, it's cool to hear something, and kind of get a feel for a riff and just veer off into some little melodic secondary riff. I also wish I knew another musician who had the same approach like this too (in the rare case I toss out my own ideas). One of my favorite bands is Television. They were like that.. That was two guys trading off each other..Ever heard them?

 

[KDude]

oh wait, you meant immersion in the studying sense.. yeah, i don't remain in that.

 

[gromit]

Where I do get my unexplainable gut feelings is in design. Is anyone else the same?

I definitely feel this way with drawing or painting, and I felt that way when I was in school for architecture. Like you'd just sort of feel for it, spatially/mentally/artistically, and then it would sort of click... same with sports, actually. Almost just get into a zone where it feels like there's no difference between you and the material you're working with. I'm not sure if I'm describing it well or not.

 

[wolfy]

I definitely feel this way with drawing or painting, and I felt that way when I was in school for architecture. Like you'd just sort of feel for it, spatially/mentally/artistically, and then it would sort of click... same with sports, actually. Almost just get into a zone where it feels like there's no difference between you and the material you're working with. I'm not sure if I'm describing it well or not.

Yeah, that is pretty good. Like that old quote from Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance...

"Actually this idea isn't so strange," I continue. "Sometime look at a novice workman or a bad workman and compare his expression with that of a craftsman whose work you know is excellent and you'll see the difference. The craftsman isn't ever following a single line of instruction. He's making decisions as he goes along. For that reason he'll be absorbed and attentive to what he's doing even though he doesn't deliberately contrive this. His motions and the machine are in a kind of harmony. He isn't following any set of written instructions because the nature of the material at hand determines his thoughts and motions, which simultaneously change the nature of the material at hand. The material and his thoughts are changing together in a progression of changes until his mind's at rest at the same time the material's right."

"Sounds like art," the instructor says.

...


I've noticed that people who have never worked with steel have trouble seeing this... that the motorcycle is primarily a mental phenomenon. They associate metal with given shapes... pipes, rods, girders, tools, parts... all of them fixed and inviolable, and think of it as primarily physical. But a person who does machining or foundry work or forge work or welding sees "steel" as having no shape at all. Steel can be any shape you want if you are skilled enough, and any shape but the one you want if you are not.


Robert M. Pirsig

 

[KDude]

cool vid of someone i grew up with (sort of a family friend). he is.. isfp. but also esfp at times.. umm, not important though. just posting this cuz he gets caught up in doing too... but he's freaking amazingly detailed.. yet he has nothing to say about his process (fast forward to 8:00). funnily, he's used to be a badass skater too. i wonder if the athlete/artist is an SP thing

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADtw93RHNpA].[/youtube]

 

[wolfy]

I was thinking about that Te thing and training. Where it comes in is I keep an eye on my results, I am pretty objective there.

 

[KDude]

Really, there seems to be a lot of "Te" involved with training, especially for a newb. One could not maximize their time or nutrition right.. opt for inferior exercises, not remember to stretch beforehand, grip wrong, try to bench solo (which i did long ago.. and there's still a slight pain on my cuff.. not too bad.. but stuff like that was the result of percieving it all to be more straightforward than it was).

 

[wolfy]

Cool video, enjoyed it. He is vague on the process. I've seen a few Dylan videos where he is really vague about process.

As far as training, yeah, you have to learn the ins and outs. But then you can let go. There is a lot of Te in training others.

 

[wolfy]

There really isn't a lot of Te in my training. It is Se and some combination of Fi/Ti. Really, that is how it is. I know guys who take that approach, but that was never me.

 

[KDude]

i've noticed people like that too.

in a way,i'm fascinated by Te approaches to life.. (not just in training). i wouldn't mind being guided along by someone who had it. let someone run that part of my life. heh edit: it would have to be an N though. i get the feeling they at least give people the illusion of freedom. my dad is an SJ. i already know what that's like.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

They're elusive, flighty creatures.

*sets up a colorful candy trap w/ cookies and cupcakes*

::walks along::

::snatch:: I got the cupcake!

D'oh!

:steam: trapped! dag-namit!

 

[wolfy]

i've noticed people like that too.

in a way,i'm fascinated by Te approaches to life.. (not just in training). i wouldn't mind being guided along by someone who had it. let someone run that part of my life. heh edit: it would have to be an N though. i get the feeling they at least give people the illusion of freedom. my dad is an SJ. i already know what that's like.

I think there is a danger in letting others run that part of your life. You have to be pretty careful in who you choose. Look at Elvis and Hendrix, they both had endless issues because they couldn't get a grip on that side. I know what you mean though, need someone to balance you. That is what a good partner will do, keep you on the straight and narrow.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

elvis and hendrix are ISFP's? or you just making a statement about needing a good partner?

 

[wolfy]

Both, more the partner thing. Elvis was used as an example of an isfp in a book I read. I have seen Hendrix typed as isfp a few time. Both seem like they could be.

 

[wolfy]

I was thinking about this need for organisation. A desire for organisational skills that I have seen in myself. That is what I label Te, getting stuff outside of me organized into some kind of system.

If you are isfp you probably value creativity. You probably have a creative mindset. The type descriptions almost always talk about having a value for creativity so the likelihood is pretty good you have a creative mindset if you've been going reading the descriptions and seeing yourself in them.

If you have a creative mindset it kind of follows you'll have a problem with organisation. That is often is the case. There are tons of resources on getting organised for creative types.

So I think that you can cut to the chase and miss out all that "what is Te" stuff and study how creative types got there lives ordered.

I think there is a lot to be learnt from that area for isfp.

Here is a start The Creative Personality By Mihaly Csikszentmihaly

 

[KDude]

I'd say I'd like more "Te", but not really in organizing.. more like I wish I had devoted myself to music with some Te more.. like "do this much practice at so and so hour". I'd do better with more longterm career/money goals too. I guess. I mean, if it was entirely up to me, I wouldn't give a shit. To quote Marlon Brando, I would prefer that someone just threw a bag of cash on my doorstep every month. He didn't like his job either, as cool as it was. But apparently, that's not reality to think that way. I'm coming to the realization that life is your job. Not everything else besides your job, as I've believed all of my life. Everything about "reality" tells me that, so maybe I should just play along, define myself with some larger goal, stick with it.

 

[wolfy]

I know what you mean about sticking with one thing. I guess the upside of doing a lot of things is that it gives you broad skills and knowledge and that makes a person interesting and gives them the ability to adapt.

It is never too late to choose.

I think life includes your job. I have gone through periods where I have struggled because my job didn't match with some aspect of what I wanted to be. When I got into training I really struggled with baking. Because making bread didn't mesh with my whole thing. Some need to keep everything holistic, congruent, whole, authentic, I don't know which word reflects that best. It is kind of a strange quirk I think but there it is and it isn't going away.

So I tend to get wrapped up in having everything reflect me.