[ISTP] help with ISTP guy

[Giggly]

a metaphor for ISTP love, translated from T to F for your convenience.

still waters run deep, but people only see the debris that is floating at the top, whether it is a dirty attitude blown in from nearby people or trashy thoughts someone decided to drop in on their way by. from underneath the surface, i look up at what the water looks like at the top and I feel sad. nobody is going to want to swim in that.

occasionally, someone will notice life below the surface and take a plunge. once they're past the debris, they start to see how things really are and swim downwards. often times this is hard for them and I have to swim up instead and for a brief moment in time, we see each other eye to eye, and my love thrives in the only place it can, an underwater sanctuary. but without fail, they all eventually run out of breath or get tired of a relationship only halfway down... i dont have the heart or the words to explain that this is their own shortcoming. they won't stay long, so it's best for their peace of mind if they can blame something else for why it didnt work.

many times, I venture out of the water and run freely above the surface, but i dont understand why people are the way they are, and i cant help but remember all of the crap floating on top of the water and feel sad. as much as id like to stay, it's not for me. the depths from whence i came, i then return again. back to a kind of loneliness few would understand, intensely quiet and peaceful, but full of life, much like the ocean floor, to wait for the day the right one dives in, dirty scuba gear and all. until then, plenty of fish in the sea to keep me company.

Wow, that was very touching. It could be the story of many introverts.

 

[Poki]

Wow, that was very touching. It could be the story of many introverts.

I dont get this part as its really judgemental against others. This one part really killed it for me.

i dont have the heart or the words to explain that this is their own shortcoming. they won't stay long, so it's best for their peace of mind if they can blame something else for why it didnt work.

 

[StephMC]

And we'd talk about how different our types are and how he was ALWAYS looking for a motive or looking for my actions to mean something...and I was like "duuuude....nooooooo. srsly, nooooooo." It made me weirdly self conscious, or at least very aware of the fact that he thought everything I did meant something...so I didn't feel like I could *do* anything D:

That's exactly my experience too. And trying to communicate you have no real motivations -all- the time almost seems to make it worse for someone who is convinced there's meaning/motivation to everything. It makes me shut down and feel a little self conscious.. which is a weird, foreign thing. It makes me question everything to the point where it's almost not enjoyable to be around. Which sucks, because when I don't feel like I'm being put under a microscope, I've had tons of fun and a huge connection with NFs.

 

[sLiPpY]

That's exactly my experience too. And trying to communicate you have no real motivations -all- the time almost seems to make it worse for someone who is convinced there's meaning/motivation to everything. It makes me shut down and feel a little self conscious.. which is a weird, foreign thing. It makes me question everything to the point where it's almost not enjoyable to be around. Which sucks, because when I don't feel like I'm being put under a microscope, I've had tons of fun and a huge connection with NFs.

hmm... I tend to get really frustrated when the kiss principle is violated.
Doesn't matter if it's a work scenario, or a relationship.

 

[Poki]

That's exactly my experience too. And trying to communicate you have no real motivations -all- the time almost seems to make it worse for someone who is convinced there's meaning/motivation to everything. It makes me shut down and feel a little self conscious.. which is a weird, foreign thing. It makes me question everything to the point where it's almost not enjoyable to be around. Which sucks, because when I don't feel like I'm being put under a microscope, I've had tons of fun and a huge connection with NFs.

I know for me in this scenario it does cause an uncomfortableness and I fall heavily into external perception mode. Even if they try to pull motivations or assume certain things at the end of the day I see if they still accept me and enjoy my company. I leave my perception very high level and shallow to accomplish this.


To help distinguish the difference with an ENFP and an ENFJ. an ENFP wants to know why you do things, an ENFJ wants to know what you want. Both want to provide you with what you want. NFPs want to be able to use Ne to expand that out by understanding your motivations, NFJs want to know what it is they can do by way of Se.

 

[Rebe]

And INFPs want to pull you into our Fi web? We want to understand you to see if you are worthwhile.

 

[Poki]

And INFPs want to pull you into our Fi web? We want to understand you to see if you are worthwhile.

It honestly seems like an INFP will fall into Ne once they find out you are worth while and an ENFP will fall into Fi once they figure you out That may be why they say you must first judge E and I by your initial interactions/impressions of a person.

 

[Windigo]

Even though your experience so far has been of "crap floating on top of the water", and ISTPs' experiences in life play a big part in determining how they view things, please don't rule out the possibility that you could have different outcomes with people in the future (particularly in relationships). Life may surprise you.

+1! Miracles DO happen!

I think this is true from my experience with my ISTP. For the past two weeks I just gave to him happily and freely without expecting anything back (instead of the usual where I'd feel disappointment/resentment), and then voila, one evening I came home to a beautiful vase of fringed red tulips (he went out of his way to find something unique), peanut butter brownies and fresh berries. Could my letting go have been the reason? I don't know. He doesn't readily explain his motivation for anything. It's just my guess.

We made/ate dinner together in the dark with Pink Floyd in the background and ... very rare for him ... he turned up the intensity: winking, flirting, making deep eye contact, showing off his physical grace for me, things I'd thought he no longer found the need to do with us (we've been living together for a few months now). It was almost too much magnetism directed TO me for me to take, so I kiddingly told him to stop. =P

But he's like that, I guess. Like the Time Traveler in The Time Traveler's Wife. While "he vanishes at inordinately frequent and lengthy intervals," when he decides to be present, he's totally there, and it's almost too intense when he is.

I think I am getting to the point where I'm comfortable with how he does romance. Where I don't take it personally, or as a statement of our relationship's decline. This is the way he is -- for me, our relationship is always on the back burner... "fine-tuning", always in need of adjustment, as someone said. Or maybe like a live thing, a potted herb that needs constant care. For him, the relationship is always there but put away like a non-perishable, but when he decides to use it, he makes something AMAZING out of it. Then it's put away again and he goes back to doing other amazing things like his work.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about! Just like the ENFPs worst fear is hypocrisy, the ENTJs is incompetency . . . the ISTPs is loss of personal choice/options. Being forced to action/explanation etc. makes them feel like they are drowning and they must escape FAST! They are very much like a horse. . . if you go into the paddock with a horse that doesn't know you very well, you will find yourself chasing it around for a long time, but the minute you just stop and turn your back on the horse it will walk up to you and nose you. They are curious about you, they just don't want to feel trapped by you. Ultimately, however, for an ISTP relationship to work, they have to feel they can trust you not to control them. Leave the front door wide open. They thrive with trust.

hmm... I tend to get really frustrated when the kiss principle is violated.
Doesn't matter if it's a work scenario, or a relationship.

I makes you feel like this.

 

[Poki]

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about! Just like the ENFPs worst fear is hypocrisy, the ENTJs is incompetency . . . the ISTPs is loss of personal choice/options. Being forced to action/explanation etc. makes them feel like they are drowning and they must escape FAST! They are very much like a horse. . . if you go into the paddock with a horse that doesn't know you very well, you will find yourself chasing it around for a long time, but the minute you just stop and turn your back on the horse it will walk up to you and nose you. They are curious about you, they just don't want to feel trapped by you. Ultimately, however, for an ISTP relationship to work, they have to feel they can trust you not to control them. Leave the front door wide open. They thrive with trust.

I have learned how to escape while not running.

 

[Windigo]

I have learned how to escape while not running.

 

[foolish heart]

iu9g

And luckynolimits, your past experience makes me feel sorry for the world outside of you. Knowing "that there's lots of very valuable things in life besides finding love" is something ENFJs are very aware of, though its difficult to admit because we wish it could be so easy to justify such a focus on love. We see love in those things, even if its love of the self or the world or life, to compensate. I don't think an ISTP should look for someone for the sake of finding love, because I think that what you focus on is important, but when it comes I'd beg you to embrace it, even for the sake of the ones you love. I think loving is difficult for an ISTP because they are so aware of their singularity. Loving can make you feel lonely, but there is nothing comparable. ISTP love is so precious because every moment of it is a choice coming from that knowledge. I don't know too much about other types but I think it is extremely valuable & I wish an ISTP could experience the impact and excellence that feeling such a real love has on the people who get it. Its why we NFs are such ISTP junkies. It is an innocent love, its what people wish they could hold onto. Its kept that way because the ISTP never focuses on it enough to taint it with intent or capacity to denaturize itself.

Very true... and in preserving my two biggest perspectives - the cold reality of life, and the pure ideal of love, I've found there is a common ground, a bittersweet element that keeps my fire lit even in the toughest circumstances. It might seem lonely, but it isn't what it seems because now I recognize at least a little of that element in everything and it gives me the emotional resilience to stay insightful even when it looks ugly. It's only the understanding which that insight produces which is lonely... but with time, even that has given me a sense of solitary comfort that I love far more than I loath. My only wish is that I could give the same deep sense of peace to the people around me. However, nothing is perfect and I can still make the best of it even though that will probably never happen... a bitter but sweet truth in itself, to part from our absolute ideals so we can see how it actually is and commit ourselves to making that imperfect reality better. The hardest part is realizing how little you can do and the deep but true extent of our powerlessness, letting go of the illusion of control that a false sense of power implies. Only beyond that powerlessness can we see our fears and beat them to gain an indestructible sense of freedom, which has been the key to my own happiness.

 

[Poki]

Very true... and in preserving my two biggest perspectives - the cold reality of life, and the pure ideal of love, I've found there is a common ground, a bittersweet element that keeps my fire lit even in the toughest circumstances. It might seem lonely, but it isn't what it seems because now I recognize at least a little of that element in everything and it gives me the emotional resilience to stay insightful even when it looks ugly. It's only the understanding which that insight produces which is lonely... but with time, even that has given me a sense of solitary comfort that I love far more than I loath. My only wish is that I could give the same deep sense of peace to the people around me. However, nothing is perfect and I can still make the best of it even though that will probably never happen... a bitter but sweet truth in itself, to part from our absolute ideals so we can see how it actually is and commit ourselves to making that imperfect reality better.

Reminds me of

Said "Daddy when you coming home"
He said the first thing that came to his mind

I'm already there
Take a look around
I'm the sunshine in your hair
I'm the shadow on the ground
I'm the whisper in the wind
I'm your imaginary friend
And I know I'm in your prayers
Oh I'm already there

.....

Touch you with my fingertips
So turn out the light and close your eyes

I'm already there
Don't make a sound
I'm the beat in your heart
I'm the moonlight shining down
I'm the whisper in the wind
And I'll be there 'till the end
Can you feel the love that we share
Oh I'm already there

 

[Rebe]

So guys...

INFP: I think we should hold off sex for a little while because I'd like us to get to know each other mentally a bit more...how do you know if you even like my mind or me yours if we are always distracted with the sex?

ISTP: Are you breaking up with me? What did I do wrong? Why are you punishing me? I haven't done anything wrong. We have fun, don't we?

INFP:...uhm...that wasn't what I meant...at all...uhm...

 

[Rainne]

So guys...

INFP: I think we should hold off sex for a little while because I'd like us to get to know each other mentally a bit more...how do you know if you even like my mind or me yours if we are always distracted with the sex?

ISTP: Are you breaking up with me? What did I do wrong? Why are you punishing me? I haven't done anything wrong. We have fun, don't we?

INFP:...uhm...that wasn't what I meant...at all...uhm...

Classic ISTP response. Also,

INFP: I think we should hold off sex for a little while because I'd like us to get to know each other mentally a bit more...how do you know if you even like my mind or me yours if we are always distracted with the sex?

lol

 

[toast]

... a bitter but sweet truth in itself, to part from our absolute ideals so we can see how it actually is and commit ourselves to making that imperfect reality better. The hardest part is realizing how little you can do and the deep but true extent of our powerlessness, letting go of the illusion of control that a false sense of power implies. Only beyond that powerlessness can we see our fears and beat them to gain an indestructible sense of freedom, which has been the key to my own happiness.

I like... but if I applied that logic directly in too great a quantity I would surely dissipate. Puff, like a cloud of smoke, gone. I'm certain at least half of my potential (my talents & what I have accomplished that I truly enjoy) comes purely from my belief in it. It isn't learned. I naturally feel that way & always have. It isn't really starry eyed idealism either, because I can use it to beat myself down at times. I think this, at the greatest extreme, is where ISTPs & ENFJs are at opposite ends of a spectrum. I feel like I can be happier with a little bit of that "come what may" attitude, but to have too much of it would make me inefficient. My ISTP seems happier with a little bit of that illusion of control (such as 'security' in a deep relationship), but with too much of it he would waste all his talents.

 

[Poki]

I like... but if I applied that logic directly in too great a quantity I would surely dissipate. Puff, like a cloud of smoke, gone. I'm certain at least half of my potential (my talents & what I have accomplished that I truly enjoy) comes purely from my belief in it. It isn't learned. I naturally feel that way & always have. It isn't really starry eyed idealism either, because I can use it to beat myself down at times. I think this, at the greatest extreme, is where ISTPs & ENFJs are at opposite ends of a spectrum. I feel like I can be happier with a little bit of that "come what may" attitude, but to have too much of it would make me inefficient. My ISTP seems happier with a little bit of that illusion of control (such as 'security' in a deep relationship), but with too much of it he would waste all his talents.

Ahhh...subjectivity... can you spot it?

 

[A window to the soul]

Howdy Y'all !!!

-accidentally steps in a huge pile of BS (about NF); tries to get it off-

Hmm... what a boring load of BS 'over-analysis' about NF & SP. -yawns-

Well y'all, I gotta run; it's time to kick some asphalt in the Stang to unleash some of the frustration I've incurred from reading this boring (nonsense) thread. For those of you who don't have a Ford Mustang; please take two of these and relish in your own peace & quiet for a moment.

-peace out-

-kisses to LuckyNoLimits; the only sane one here-

 

[sLiPpY]

Howdy Y'all !!!

-accidentally steps in a huge pile of BS (about NF); tries to get it off-

Hmm... what a boring load of BS 'over-analysis' about NF & SP. -yawns-

Well y'all, I gotta run; it's time to kick some asphalt in the Stang to unleash some of the frustration I've incurred from reading this boring (nonsense) thread. For those of you who don't have a Ford Mustang; please take two of these and relish in your own peace & quiet for a moment.

-peace out-

-kisses to LuckyNoLimits; the only sane one here-

omg...what a woman!

 

[toast]

Ahhh...subjectivity... can you spot it?

Hur hur. I do see 'talents' in what makes him unique to me and that is subjective, yes. But, what I was pretty much trying to sum up is that he gets stuffy, depressed and bored when he's cooped up with family / close friends. I'm sure he'd agree he's not 'himself' without that freedom.

Perfect girl, INFP?! whah? There's way too much S in you.

 

[Poki]

Hur hur. I do see 'talents' in what makes him unique to me and that is subjective, yes. But, what I was pretty much trying to sum up is that he gets stuffy, depressed and bored when he's cooped up with family / close friends. I'm sure he'd agree he's not 'himself' without that freedom.

Perfect girl, INFP?! whah? There's way too much S in you.

I know I need that freedom to be able to just do whatever I want to do or I do lose myself. I have always had that freedom growing up and I try not to do anything that would cause that freedom to be taken away.