[ISTP] help with ISTP guy

[Bamboo]

as I am prone to saying "life is about choices."

if you're trying to make good choices, it's your fault if you make stupid, uniformed ones.

it's equally your fault if you spend so much time gathering information that you don't actually do anything.

it's a risk to put in a lot of effort on something that might not pay off. i was thinking about this earlier, but more on the subject of work/money than relationships. but the concept is similar. what it really all points toward is that I really have to be a whole lot more directed, industrious, and more willing to take (social) risks.

and when I do consider the long term, i do think about the traits I might desire in a wife(!!!)*, and I craft myself appropriately. but there will still be chance, can't get around that.


*to some extent, this weirds me out, but the concept of good long term relationships does have it's appeal. at any rate, the traits I build in myself generally have positive externalities and are generally practical.

 

[onemoretime]

Ok, other threads I post have NOT been so serious, they were just for laugh but this one is serious.

I am ISTP and there is this girl (dunno what type)!!! I accidentally invited her backpacking and made out with her. Now she keeps talking to me, and giving me her phone number in case I want to invite to something else???

I dunno I haven't given dating her much thought until now though I suppose she's been into me for months, I dunno if I want commitment, but maybe it wouldn't be too bad??????????????

ty, love man

Figure what you feel out, then communicate that with her, for good or for bad. Avoiding the issue only makes it worse.

 

[man]

i already communicated and ask her out on date!!! it made her really happy which is good enough for me

whether its good for me in the long run is yet to be scene, but i'm a big fan of self sacrifice

 

[Bamboo]

i wrote the above before i saw your second post.

and yes i'm certainly on the critical and analytical side of the spectrum.


but to answer this:

But, they eventually come around.

But, and this is a big BUT, when they do eventually come around, will you still be around?!?

Maybe, maybe not...

...if there is really something there, that fits in the long term, than I think more on the side of "maybe" than "not".

 

[SillySapienne]

You sound exactly like my ISTP.

I don't know if he's even mine anymore.

I think he kinda lost me.

TEN YEARS, TEN YEARS!!!

And, finally, he's willing to concede/accept a life-long partnership, but always with contingencies.

No woman is gonna be down for that!!!

Harumph, I'm being a little negative here, though.

He does have some AMAZING qualities.

And, when they are willing to commit to something, you bet your ass that they've put a buttload of thought into it.

Stressful, too stressful.

When I recede, he comes knocking at my door, when I'm around, he doubts.

When I doubt him, and us, he becomes steadfast in his belief that we are meant to be with each other, and that I am the best girl in the world.

 

[Bamboo]

moved

 

[onemoretime]

i already communicated and ask her out on date!!! it made her really happy which is good enough for me

whether its good for me in the long run is yet to be scene, but i'm a big fan of self sacrifice

Listen to your emotions, they're far more perceptive than we often give them credit for.

 

[Bamboo]

man:

self-sacrifice is great until it's apparent that things suck. not the best long term strategy, but you'll work it out. i sense the bravado, nothing wrong with that, just don't get carried away.

Remember step 3.

..., step 3 is:

3. Make a shit-ton of mistakes

this part will be awkward.

and for god's sake, don't get her pregnant. accidental kissing, no big deal. carry the supplies you need...

 

[SillySapienne]

quite a dance you're dancing, eh?

slow down a bit. if you slow the tempo you'll notice the transitions better.

the transitions are important to note - note who changed what and what you feel when things change.

does that make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

He's consistently tried to change me, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Regardless, they say that women are the ones who try or desire to change the men they're in love with, I am not one of them, in this regard, I believe that when you love someone, you love them for who they are, holistically, flaws and all.

For him, everything, love, relationships, people, him, everything is a system, an imperfect system in constant need of improving... to *his* standards.

I do believe that relationships, and one's life in general should be optimal/optimized, but I don't get greedy, or nit-picky, or obsessed.

He is resistant to change himself, yet so eager to change/fix everything,( and I mean everything in the broadest sense here), else.

I dunno.

He's very introverted, and self-reliant, and self-enclosed and encompassing, almost to an autistic degree.

I don't know if he wants a partner as much as he wants a pet. :/

 

[Windigo]

What a good post. ^^^



All around solid reference guide and advice.

And regarding "being upfront" and "recognizing that they will interpret it any way they wish to." Yeesh, that's the truth. I've made the stupid mistake of thinking that being upfront and forthright would guard me from entanglements.

Not the case. I have gone to the point of "ruining the mood" and essentially producing a clear oral contract* that 'I'm NOT looking for a commitment and this would just be for fun and I'm not willing to do this if you expect more than that'. Even so, I've still gotten into situations where the other party expected more from me (which wouldn't be so bad, at least for me, in itself) and gave me problems until I had to drive it home to back off.


So the point I'm making, and what I would add to all this is: learn to identify the ones who are really looking for more than you are, even if they don't know it themselves. It's good for both of you not to get caught up in something that isn't so ideal.

Excellent point. I suppose that knowledge comes with lots of experience for most people.

The oral contract is one reason why ISTPs and ENTJ women make a good pair. I often made an oral contract on the first date. I found it funny how often some guys would call me for months arguing about how unfair my contract was . . . . my response was always, "Hey, I've been open and up front with you, if you don't like my conditions then I expect you to move along and find someone else. What's the point of calling me for six months complaining that I'm unreasonable? Here's a quarter call someone who cares." Seriously, why were they so angry? I told them my expectations LONG before either one of us developed enough of a bond to hurt. You'd think guys especially would appreciate that from a girl.

The guys I've known I could actually be comfortable with for a life time are the ones who were confident enough to hear it without being offended. I guess that's dominant Te. My ISTP husband actually visibly relaxed when I told him my contract. I was also thankful that he was also honest with me from the beginning. We were then free to enjoy each other's company and interests. We got to know each other without any expectations. Neither one of us made commitments of ANY kind until we were absolutely sure we were compatible. After a few months he revised his intentions and I agreed. Of course we were both understanding that ANY relationship is a risk, but it has been an 8 year adventure that only gets better with time.

ISTPs are like a high quality scotch. It takes more time for them to mature into a smooth and satisfying drink. If you try them too early they are like razor blades going down.

 

[SillySapienne]

ISTPs are like a high quality scotch. It takes more time for them to mature into a smooth and satisfying drink. If you try them too early they are like razor blades going down.

In my experience with one IsTP it takes an absurd amount of time for him to mature, he's 27 going on 22, at best.

Such a brilliant child.....

 

[Windigo]

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

He's consistently tried to change me, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

Regardless, they say that women are the ones who try or desire to change the men they're in love with, I am not one of them, in this regard, I believe that when you love someone, you love them for who they are, holistically, flaws and all.

For him, everything, love, relationships, people, him, everything is a system, an imperfect system in constant need of improving... to *his* standards.

I do believe that relationships, and one's life in general should be optimal/optimized, but I don't get greedy, or nit-picky, or obsessed.

He is resistant to change himself, yet so eager to change/fix everything,( and I mean everything in the broadest sense here), else.

I dunno.

He's very introverted, and self-reliant, and self-enclosed and encompassing, almost to an autistic degree.

I don't know if he wants a partner as much as he wants a pet. :/

You sound like a wonderful woman who has really given a lot to this man. What attracted you to him in the first place?

I don't know if his desire to improve you is particularly ISTP? My husband pretty much takes me for what I am and that's one of the things I found endearing of him. He was one of the few men WHO DIDN'T try to remake me into a better person. In fact he's the one that complains that I AM always trying to improve EVERYTHING! LOL!

As an ENFP I am sure that you are looking for someone who can be a lot more spontaneous (ISTPs can sometimes get stuck in a rut that is hard to pull them out of) and also a LOT more encouraging and a lot more verbally affirming. Do you feel you can talk these things out with him freely?

 

[SillySapienne]

You sound like a wonderful woman who has really given a lot to this man. What attracted you to him in the first place

:blushing:

Thank you, and yes, I have given a lot to this man/child.

For me, it was love at first sight, and then two months later, I lost my virginity to him.

He was aloof, confident, ridiculously smart, and unique, strange, odd, a man who had depth and layers of complexity.

He also was/is a misogynist, an atheist, an uber-rational, and kinda reminded me a lot of me father, whom I had a horrible relationship with. :/

I don't know if his desire to improve you is particularly ISTP? My husband pretty much takes me for what I am and that's one of the things I found endearing of him. He was one of the few men WHO DIDN'T try to remake me into a better person. In fact he's the one that complains that I AM always trying to improve EVERYTHING! LOL!

Lucky you!

Ummm, admittedly, when he and I first met, I was dealing with a lot of issues, I was amidst a thick existential depression, I was all heart, had a bleeding heart, a soul, a fire, a rage, a passion, he helped me temper my emotions, but then he also stifled, resented, and invalidated them. :/

As an ENFP I am sure that you are looking for someone who can be a lot more spontaneous (ISTPs can sometimes get stuck in a rut that is hard to pull them out of)

TRUTH!!!!

and also a LOT more encouraging and a lot more verbally affirming. Do you feel you can talk these things out with him freely?

He's gotten better at being more encouraging and affirming, over the years.

But he becomes hostile whenever I express some sort of dissatisfaction with our relationship, very hostile, very very hostile and hurtful, and during these times, I find myself feeling sorry for him while simultaneously hating him and pitying him. :/

 

[man]

:blushing:

But he becomes hostile whenever I express some sort of dissatisfaction with our relationship, very hostile, very very hostile and hurtful, and during these times, I find myself feeling sorry for him while simultaneously hating him and pitying him. :/

Your ISTP needs to learn some etiquette!!! You have a right to voice your opinions, and he shouldn't be acting like such a baby!!!

I'm only 20 and I'm not ready to get married (LOL), but even I can see that everyone should treat each other with respect and kindness!! I can't stand to see all these hurt feelings caused by fellow ISTPs.

 

[Windigo]

:blushing:

Thank you, and yes, I have given a lot to this man/child.

For me, it was love at first sight, and then two months later, I lost my virginity to him.

He was aloof, confident, ridiculously smart, and unique, strange, odd, a man who had depth and layers of complexity.

He also was/is a misogynist, an atheist, an uber-rational, and kinda reminded me a lot of me father, whom I had a horrible relationship with. :/

I can understand why you were intrigued by him. I think ENFPs are drawn to strong confident people with layers of complexity. Unfortunately we do kind of get drawn to people who are like our worst parental relationships. I was often attracted to people who were like my mom (with whom I didn't have a good relationship).

Lucky you!

Ummm, admittedly, when he and I first met, I was dealing with a lot of issues, I was amidst a thick existential depression, I was all heart, had a bleeding heart, a soul, a fire, a rage, a passion, he helped me temper my emotions, but then he also stifled, resented, and invalidated them. :/

He's gotten better at being more encouraging and affirming, over the years.

But he becomes hostile whenever I express some sort of dissatisfaction with our relationship, very hostile, very very hostile and hurtful, and during these times, I find myself feeling sorry for him while simultaneously hating him and pitying him. :/

This makes a lot of sense, I think somehow though he got it into his mind that he needed to be in a sort of supervisory relationship with you. It sounds as if he's comfortable "fixing" you but not with you being fixed because then you will have to redefine the relationship.

I read recently about how couples often enter in to these "unspoken agreements" with each other. "I'll be the broken one, you be the fixer" or "I'll build the wall, you break it down." I realized that with my ISTP we had a "I won't point out your flaws if you don't point out mine" agreement.

I couldn't figure out why whenever we got into a fight he would become more and more enraged over my calmness. It felt like he WANTED me to go crazy and be the out of control, emotional female that he always said he despised? Then I realized that he only got angry when I expressed my dissatisfaction about the relationship. On a good day, "it was (my) issue, not (his)." On a bad day he would get very hostile as well. The calmer I was the more angry he would become because he felt like he wasn't "the Man". He would say something hurtful and then disappear without a word. This was frustrating for me at first. As an ENTJ I like to sit down and solve a problem as a team and be done with it. As an ISTP the only problem is an emergency.

I talked to him about our "unspoken agreement" one day when I told him I was ready to leave if he didn't hear me out without getting angry. Things have been getting steadily better.

I read in socionomics that ENFP/ISTP is the most optimal match because it is a dual relationship? I think if you two could redefine the relationship (maybe with counseling?) it would morph into a comfortable partnership, duality relationship where you actually balance each other out. He appreciates your emotional input and you respect his analytical input.

10 years is a long time. Have you told him how close you are to being done with him? He might fear that no one else would put up with him or understand him like you do enough to try to work at it.

 

[Intricate Mystic]

Man, I wasn't talking marriage, but you are the one who wasn't sure if you if you wanted "COMMITMENT" to which I say the above advice is good stuff ESPECIALLY because ISTPs tend to take things SO one day at a time that they end up in sticky situations that NEVER go away. (In other words they find themselves committed whether they want to be or not.)

My ISTP thought he'd give this girl who'd been hounding him a date. He ended up "accidentally groping her" and has put up with 17 years of dealing with a certifiably crazy ex-wife (married for just 6 months--but they share a daughter of whom he now has full custody). Not only has this been hard for him personally, but it pretty much was the death sentence for any girl who came along after the ex and was frightened by her constant threats. I can't tell you how many times he's said, "I can't believe how I was so close to NOT going on that date with her."

It's hard for me to understand how someone could end up married without wanting to be. Is it an inability to say "no" to a girl who is pressuring them?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

ISTPs are like a high quality scotch. It takes more time for them to mature into a smooth and satisfying drink. If you try them too early they are like razor blades going down.

Absolutely.

 

[Windigo]

It's hard for me to understand how someone could end up married without wanting to be. Is it an inability to say "no" to a girl who is pressuring them?

No, the fact is that contrary to common belief, most ISTPs are decent guys. When he got the girl pregnant he decided he should "do the right thing." He didn't realize she was using him for his sperm. Although it ended shortly and painfully, it was the best thing for their daughter.

 

[Intricate Mystic]

No, the fact is that contrary to common belief, most ISTPs are decent guys. When he got the girl pregnant he decided he should "do the right thing." He didn't realize she was using him for his sperm. Although it ended shortly and painfully, it was the best thing for their daughter.

Thank you for explaining. I agree that most ISTPs are decent guys. The ones I know certainly are (and I'm sure this applies to women ISTPs as well!).

It seems like being P's instead of J's can lead to trouble in relationships for ISTPs because they are so open-minded about people. One example of this is Slippy going out with a stripper who was trying to do something improper under the table when they were in a public place. Other types of men would never have dated a stripper in the first place!

 

[A window to the soul]

....Other types of men would never have dated a stripper in the first place!