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  1. #31
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    There's alot of great advice here. My 0.02 cents worth:

    So when a women talks about her SO in a non-flattering light to you, that's a red flag. Stay away.
    May be true. Seems like it.

    And do stay away from married women, you don't know the husband and when jealousy rears its ugly head, you could be in danger.
    Under advisement.

    As for polyamory, do your reasearch. It sound great but it does has its draw back.

    Good luck.
    What I like about polyamory is that I don't think it's inherently wrong to like more than one person. It would be to betray the other's trust behind their back. But people are people, we are attracted to many types of person. It's something I don't fully know what to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by countrygirl View Post
    Maybe you want a long term relationship, you want what she has not necceassary her.



    Don't get involved with people who cheat. That will hurts everyone involved (especially children).



    Then create your own luck. Don't leave some things to chance. Know what you want.



    Don't get involved with prople who cheat.



    It is not that black and white. Everybody falls on a spectrum of monogamy.



    Don't get involved with people who cheat.
    In agreement with everything except the first item. I haven't given it much thought, so I can't rule it out as a possibility. But it seems unlikely that I'd confuse one for the other.

    That said, it could be possible to want both. Which stands as my only "legitimate case" actionable scenario to pursue a woman involved with someone else. That is, if I really wanted a long term relationship with her.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I understand what you were talking about!

    Until recently I had similar luck in a lot of circumstances- or worse occasionally - with a break for a long term relationship where HE had another woman thrown into the mix (and to make things worse, I learned much later that he'd been with another girl- his girlfriend of 2 years- when we'd met!)

    A lot of it is the detachment thing- if you seem detached from emotional entanglements, it makes you a tasty bait for taken people wanting a quick snack- they are generally looking for someone who they can sleep with and confide in, but not end up entangled with. If you appear to be emotionally detached, you seem like exactly the type of person who can fulfill these needs.
    I think this is part of it, except that this would suggest I would attract girls who were interested in...uh..."sexual confidants" who were single and attached in equal proportion, right?
    Also, if you have the problem of treating everyone equally, in a friendly way, and joking with people (I know that I do that ) a lot of people will think that you're flirting with them! Listening to their troubles also puts you in that category... it's kind of a movie cliche when you think about it
    You have a point.
    (so is wanting to jump the handyman- but that's ANOTHER type of movie )
    I read a book on starting a handyman business, and there was actually a 2 page section on handling adulterous housewives.

    Somewhere over a year ago my best friend (an ESTJ) made me write a list of what I REALLY wanted in a relationship and what I was doing that prevented that from happening. It really opened my eyes to patterns in my behavior that were totally working against me Though I know that Ps and Lists work like oil and water, it IS a helpful exercize

    Once I realized what I really wanted and what obstacles I was putting in the way it was a lot easier and now I'm happily taken as the ONLY woman!

    Also- feel free to ask questions- like I've said, I've been there
    Ok ok, the list idea sounds alright.

    Thanks.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #33
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    I think this is part of it, except that this would suggest I would attract girls who were interested in...uh..."sexual confidants" who were single and attached in equal proportion, right?
    look around... you might get some nice single ladies who are leering at you but less bold... you never know!


    I read a book on starting a handyman business, and there was actually a 2 page section on handling adulterous housewives.


    Ok ok, the list idea sounds alright.

    Thanks.
    it worked out well here, and you're welcome!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #34
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    look around... you might get some nice single ladies who are leering at you but less bold... you never know!
    Heck yeah! I don't see how he couldn't get any other type of woman. I mean, come on, he's a cutie! Sheesh, it's not an impossible task!
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    How about just simply practicing some self-control?

    Do you know what you want out of these relationships? Is it just sex? If it's more than just sex, do you get that a relationship born out of cheating isn't the healthiest thing in the world? And still you are compelled? Would you ever consider keeping things platonic for a while?
    I do.

    Sometimes. Generally, no. Yes, but I see the potential for a better match if it's conducted properly. In some regard, yes. Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I have noticed of recent how very charming SPs are so start off with giving yourselves a pat on the back for being charming and approachable. ... Enough with being pulled into their world...as if they were the tour guide taking you on a tour...its important...especially for a man...to take the reins in his hands and pull the subject of your affection into your world (if they have a boyfriend when you do it thats their problem. Some of the best lovers are ones who have boyfriends.) Use your P and don't look on each seduction a means to an end rather make it an artistic process without boarders.
    Umm...ok.

    Maybe the taking the reins part applies.

    Quote Originally Posted by seamaid View Post
    I also wonder about self-control and SPs' handle on it. One of my close girlfriends is an ISFP and she too just goes with the flow when it comes to relationships. She discriminates heavily when it comes to the guy's appearance, but not much else, which leads me to think she's NOT thinking of long-term potential as a decisive factor. She goes with what feels good to her at the moment and doesn't worry too much about the possibilities.
    Good with bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Self control... what's that? I thought control was that nasty thing parents try to hold over us when all we want to do is have fun!

    Yeah, we all need to learn about it sometime or the worst that can happen is a knife in the back. Didn't need a consequence that bad to get that out of my headspace though - I just got cheated on myself.
    Bummer.

    Why?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    so there has to be a pattern, but i don't see it, and i can't understand it.

    and of course, being a 21 year old male, i'm all emotional over - wait for it - women. what a shocker. first of my kind, right? but I digress.

    with the first few girls, it wasn't a problem. c from california was just a weekend I only count her on the list cause she was my first. she just decided she liked me, and i went along with it. she went on back to cali and shannon came after her - same situation, basically. she liked me, i followed along. she left for college and is out of the picture. i only mention her because she comes up later.

    Side note: This was all in high school. I'll assure you that I wasn't a ladies man, and I was far from being popular. I spent 90% of my time in my head anyway, what did I know?

    Molly tried to hook up with me drunk, and being quite sober, i pushed her off me. after apologizing to me (i was rather unphased but amused) eventually, she asks me to homecoming. i had some puppy love for her. that fling self combusts. to show her how much she doesn't like me (i guess?) she hooks up with some guy, and then another girl in front of me. and some other guy later in the night. I bring this up because it's the closest I've been to "cheated on", but i wasn't that hurt. i even see her with her new guy, and i decide it was just better. she was a popular, high maintenance girl, i was some quiet loner, it didn't work. they did.

    Marie is where the trouble starts. Marie always liked to talk to me about her relationships and exploits, typically via IM. i'm not sure why, but she just liked giving me details - and lots of them. this is a regular thing between us, goes on for months. apparently her boyfriend is some drugged out asshole. she comes on to me, and i go for it. he sat right next to me in computer lab, too. never talked to the guy.

    i don't really feel guilty about it, and the situation disappears when she goes off to college.

    remember shannon? well she comes back from college (i'm still in hs, maybe senior year...) during some break and we hang out. we hook up and immediately she starts crying. she has a boyfriend, apparently. I feel like crap, even though I really didn't know I was doing anything. I just don't like making girls cry.

    hs ends, i go abroad for some time. meet a girl there, at the time i'd assume she had no bf and i think that was the reality of the situation. but months later, back in the states, we hang out again. on top of me, while hooking up, she tells me she has a boyfriend. but she keeps kissing me. my reaction is . i don't know what that meant.

    so at this point in the story i'm in college. i'm less in my head now.

    time in college was rather uneventful. there were two girls, and neither had a boyfriend, but FWIW, one seemed to be into the idea of polyamory.

    after a year and a half, i'm out of college and taking a year off to figure things out. this was about...14 months ago.

    i reflect back on this muddled history and decide to do unto others as i would have them do unto me.

    except, I wondered, that if I ignored my girl, or didn't meet her needs, then I would pretty much expect she would go elsewhere. i really don't like the whole behind the back thing though.

    with these thoughts in limbo, I meet laura, an acquaintance from HS, out jogging. we flirt online. we meet up and...she won't stop talking about her boyfriend. it's non-stop almost. except she seems interesting, and i actually like this girl, in a way different than the rest. and she's flirting with me.

    we talk a lot about her boyfriend. she's in a bad situation. the guy is an asshole, and it's clearly and emotionally abusive relationship. he also has some sort of alcohol problem.

    i can't decide if i like her. i feel strongly for her, but her choices to remain with this guy, who "when he is asleep, he holds me so dearly" but yet when he is awake gets drunk, calls her a whore (in front of his parents, no less, who encourage her to leave him) and stalks her, suggests that her decision making skills are less than stellar.

    my phone rings, and she's outside my house at weird hours. she cries and tells me stories about the latest thing the guy did. it makes me angry. i worry that if i ever meet the guy, i'd end up doing something stupid. i also worry about her dependence on me.

    i hang out with her regularly though. there is high sexual tension. eventually, they "take a break" which means that we basically tear into each other. except, suddenly, she becomes very strange, like she is thinking of him, and it was the most awkward sexual encounter i ever had, and i'd never want to repeat anything like it again.

    we stop hanging out.

    so time passes, and I meet shannon again. the shannon i used to know, who was essentially a sweet girl, is different now. scattered. she has some boyfriend, and she tells me about how they never have sex and she wants to dump him. after all this crap in my past, i think i should have just smacked her in the face and moved along. but somehow, she convinces me after a few days that she has needs and I, lacking impulse control, decide to go along with things.

    i didn't really enjoy it. ugh.

    i immediately regret it, and I avoid her, explaining I don't want to be involved.



    present day. so i'm doing handyman work. I meet this one woman. She's 40 or so, but young spirit. Except, y'know, she's married...and has kids. Let me repeat that. SHE IS MARRIED AND HAS 4 F#%$NG KIDS. So now I'm paranoid. Is she just friendly? Maybe she's just friendly and laid back. I mean, she did wear make-up that one time...but...I dunno, maybe she had somewhere to go after.

    And lots of women go on about how their husbands don't fix stuff around the house. They argue a lot when he's around. They have me for dinner after working. Reading their body language is funny. He puts his arm around her shoulder and she leans away. Maybe funny isn't the right word. She mentioned divorcing him, and I suggest that maybe they're just having a rough spot.

    She told me a story today. Her friend, well she's having an affair. Apparently, with a contractor. And she's cheating on the contractor with some other guy. Imagine that.

    But really, I'm just selecting details which stand out to me as incriminating, cause dammit, I like her (I hate being me, btw). Which is a problem on it's own, but maybe this is just in my head. I know I don't want to get involved in this crap. It's just short term thrills vs. long term shittiness and suffering. Ugh.


    Oh, and, there's another girl. Just met her. Maybe she's friendly too, and I just can't be around a friendly female without thinking she's coming on to me. I mean, she's very charming, I think that's just her manner. She makes that eye contact with everyone, I guess.

    She really seemed like she wanted to meet up tonight, but she's southern...maybe I'm reading this all wrong, they're really friendly.

    Besides, she told me she has a boyfriend.
    Sanity, in women, is a virtue. A vastly underrated virtue. You're young, you'll learn from experience, I'm sure...

  7. #37
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeafAndSky View Post
    There's your Step 1, Bamboo. You seem pretty open, so maybe you'd like to use this thread to do it? [That would ensure that it actually happens.]

    We're waiting.
    Thanks for volunteering me.

    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I once made a list of what I need to be included and not included in the relationship, what I wanted, and a few things I thought of would be nice. I think it only covers about 2/3 of a page so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeafAndSky View Post
    It seems like 2/3 of a page would be fine. Basics. Get too detailed and it becomes unlikely that anyone would ever be a match.
    I did write out an action plan about what I'm doing with the current two "suspects." That was a detailed 2 pages.


    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Lists are great in forming a strategy.

    Also a good practice is for men to list "who they want" in an ideal mate and females to list "what qualities they want" in a mate.

    Typically men and women list it the other way around (i.e. men saying they want a woman who can be good in bed and woman saying they want a man who is courageous). Thus for hetros to switch this around works, if nothing else, as a good exercise. Its not just semantics rather it gives one a helpful perspective.
    ?



    My list:
    - not clingy
    - developed communication skills - especially body and intonation
    - not overly concerned with image
    - is interested in self-improvement

    Otherwise, I lack the experience to elaborate on this in an authoritative manner.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I just want to say that I'm impressed at what a gentleman you are and that you aspire to be.

    That is all.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Well I respect that you want to change this pattern for yourself.
    Like I said, been there, done that. I just hate to see other people go through issues like that as well. So I hope you don't think I'm jumping up your butt with my "smart" advice, I just don't want to see you get in trouble.

    You're a cool, charming, and good looking guy (and a whole lot more, I'm sure). You deserve better for yourself, and don't believe you don't. I'm sure you already know all of this.

    Good luck man.
    No offense taken with advice. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    look around... you might get some nice single ladies who are leering at you but less bold... you never know!


    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Heck yeah! I don't see how he couldn't get any other type of woman. I mean, come on, he's a cutie! Sheesh, it's not an impossible task!
    Leering but less bold?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #39
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Leering but less bold?
    Unless you like those bold leering type better .
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  10. #40
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamaid View Post
    I also wonder about self-control and SPs' handle on it. One of my close girlfriends is an ISFP and she too just goes with the flow when it comes to relationships. She discriminates heavily when it comes to the guy's appearance, but not much else, which leads me to think she's NOT thinking of long-term potential as a decisive factor. She goes with what feels good to her at the moment and doesn't worry too much about the possibilities.
    Sounds like me when I was in my twenties. Maybe it's because she is not interested in getting married and consequently does not think of qualities in a man regarding marriage.

    When I decided that marriage was for me, I made a list of want I wanted in a man. It was half a page.

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