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  1. #1
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Talking Do you really want to hurt me? (here's your chance!)

    I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

    I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I like ESTJs.

    ESTPs aren't bad. The one female ESTP I know, I like her because she's a "no-BS" individual. She also has no pretenses, what you see is what you get, and she can scrap and get her hands dirty with the best of them and not complain at all. (She is actually tougher than most men I know.)

    My biggest gripes with her are (1) her jumping to conclusions that seem rational but aren't based on all the possibilities/evidence of the situation, (2) impatience with theory/abstractions, (3) impatience to get something DONE regardless of what it is, and (4) belligerence when it's unnecessary to be so aggressive and a kind request would have been more effective.

    The men usually tend to get on my nerves more, because they don't have the "nurturing" thing that helps ESTP women stay connected to people and relate. They tend to be "players" -- always jockeying for position and power and influence, trying to establish their own gains, looking for ways to exploit a situation.

    Because of this, they can be very insensitive because they continue to play games and hardball in situations that are inappropriate and end up hurting people. They just often don't understand that what they're doing is hurtful... because they figure that everyone else is (or should be) looking after their own interests, and if you're not, then you deserve to be taken advantage of. It's like swimming with sharks. ESTP men often end up in direct sales and get very competitive.

    Are you sure you are ESTP? (You seem to emote more warm fuzzies than typical ESTP women like to do. They usually shy away from that. Although you do seem pretty tough. )
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    ESTPs...hmm now I'll have to be careful here...the missus is one of those.

    The main problem I see with her is that she can bloody someone's nose with a sledgehammer and not only does she not realise that she's done it, even when it's pointed out she can't always see why it should upset anyone anyway!

    ESTPs aren't all that bad. They're just sociopaths
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #4
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    yep- I'm an ESTP- I'm just in touch with my feeling side! (my sis is an ESFP and there's a BIG difference between us in behavior- I'm not very emotive in real life- she'll cry at the drop of a hat!)
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #5
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My biggest gripes with her are (1) her jumping to conclusions that seem rational but aren't based on all the possibilities/evidence of the situation, (2) impatience with theory/abstractions, (3) impatience to get something DONE regardless of what it is, and (4) belligerence when it's unnecessary to be so aggressive and a kind request would have been more effective.
    Does she do the thing where you're having an "in depth" conversation with her and no matter how hard you try you can't get them to see past singular concrete events? That's what ends up getting my goat.

    Bloomin 1 hour in depth conversation and then a 10 minute think before she could think of anything she'd learned or realised in the conversation. I mean what's the point of going back and forth for an hour if you're just going to come out the other end exactly the same, uninspired to change and no different. It's like the whole thing never happened!!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    ESTPs aren't all that bad. They're just sociopaths
    Ha ha -- I had always pegged Scott Peterson as a low-key ESTP. (sorry. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Does she do the thing where you're having an "in depth" conversation with her and no matter how hard you try you can't get them to see past singular concrete events? That's what ends up getting my goat.
    S types do have more trouble with that.

    ESFPs run off their feelings so much, and their in-the-moment inspirations and sense impressions, that they have to work hard to develop true "big picture / long-term goal" thinking. They really get caught up on little details and have trouble prioritizing at first which details are more important. But as far as details go, boy, do they notice them!

    ESTPs are better, because they actively engaging a detached thinking process. But yes, this woman definitely would get hung up on the practical, current impact of things. It's not that she really couldn't see what I was saying; it's just it was too ephemeral for her and she didn't see it as important.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yep- I'm an ESTP- I'm just in touch with my feeling side! (my sis is an ESFP and there's a BIG difference between us in behavior- I'm not very emotive in real life- she'll cry at the drop of a hat!)
    Definitely, there is a HUGE difference in presentation. ESFPs can be real drama queens; ESTPs transfer that intensity to how they "play the game" and try to "win."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
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    I definitely prefer STPs to STJs any day; I love the fact that despite STPs being so rooted in the real world, generally - those with greater levels of intelligence or maybe simply experience involved with different people - they tend to accept the fact that everyone's different and don't try to force themselves and their drives upon some of their compatriots (in contrast to some of their contemporaries, the named ESTJ for instance :-\); they make for great simple entertainment and/or activity partners with all that said.

  8. #8
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    They were the most likely to cause me grief in school, the one uncle I despise the most is also ESTP, along with a previous manager who I had to intensely play hard ball with to get what I needed to survive. Recently though I've been dealing with several who have proved themselves decent so I can't say the type is all wrong; it's just certain individuals have left a bad taste in my mouth and there are many representitives of other types who also fit in that category.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  9. #9
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    I've said elsewhere that stereotypical ESTJ negatives tend to be a lot more obvious and hard to avoid than most other types, something similar seems to be the case with ESTP's.

    The stereotypical bad side of, say, an INTP is that they will be lazy and argumentative, which can be avoided and worked around, whereas the stereotypical bad sides of an ESTP mean they will bring trouble to other people in a much more obvious and hard to avoid way.

  10. #10
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    But if it's obvious isn't it easier to avoid?

    Regardless of type, there are loud, pushy people I avoid because they're loud and pushy. The hard ones for me are the passive-aggressive ones who pretend to be agreeable.

    Jae Rae

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