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  1. #31
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    don't remind me!!!

    though I have to say- I hate everything about the man politically, but would probably not mind him as a person!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #32
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

    I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!
    I think ESTP's are great. Actually I like basically everybody, but I have a couple of ESTP friends who are fairly close. They're lots of fun to hang out with, and I find them to be very willing to help out when asked.

    I don't really think there is anything to hate about ESTP's any more than there is about any other type. All types have good and bad. On these boards though IN's very much dominate. That means the biggest misunderstandings that they will have will be with ES types. (Actually of all the ES types I tend to think ESFJ's get the worst treatment.) Don't take what is said on these boards personally though. Many IN's don't really understand ESTP's very well and are coming here to vent frustrations that they have with them.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  3. #33
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I feel that I need to comment on this.
    I'm pretty devoid of type prejudices, so it is notable that I have a typically lower opinion of ESTPs than any other type.

    I guess it would be fair to consider that my father was an ESTP, and that I don't respect him a whole lot. So yeah, there may be some personal experiences behind it.

    I tend to think of ESTPs as unscrupulous.
    That's definitely the word.
    And their attitudes tend to rub me the wrong way.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

    I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!
    If you're talking about me, then it's simply because I'm an INFJ. It seems that if I'm an INFJ, and I like my own way of looking at things, then obviously an ESTP should be the most difficult to deal with for me, and hence enjoy the things I hate, and hate the things I enjoy.

    I hadn't met you yet when I said those things, and I thought it unlikely that any ESTP's would come here to read them (it seemed from the description that they wouldn't really like computers or the Internet), so I could feel free to dump all the negative experiences I've had with people who seem to like making me uncomfortable onto my shadow... but you're not quite like I expected you to be... you actually try to talk about things, and don't curse all the time, write mostly in capitals, or put exclamation points after every other word.

    So, I actually like hearing your comments... so please don't go just because a while ago I felt like making a few frustrated cracks at a type I've probably never really gotten to know. If I'd known you were so easy to talk/listen to (online, anyway), I never would have said those things. The impression I get of you is that you kind of amble through life rather casually, and occasionally do dumb/harmful things, but not intentionally, and try to fix it. I also think that you would feel badly if your actions really hurt someone, which is the main thing I assumed ESTP's didn't care about. I just assumed that if I was an INFJ, and I cared about that, then the opposite of me shouldn't care about that.

  5. #35
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    The couple ESTPs I do know, I look up to them because they often demonstrate themselves superior to me in a lot of skills. Usually good down-to-earth people just like ESTJs, but not complete hardasses like ESTJs. Plus, again, the ones I know tend to have superior skill in some tactical stuff--like games, playing the social field of an organization, etc. and that appeases my "meritocratic" side. I look up to ESTPs as examples of hardy capable human beings in the same way that I guess "society" looks up to ESTJs.

    But then, the crude side shows through and I realize that they're only human.

  6. #36
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    you actually try to talk about things, and don't curse all the time, write mostly in capitals, or put exclamation points after every other word.
    oh dear- I DO use a lot of caps and exclamation points though I actually TRY to tone it down though!

    and I wasn't aiming this at any one person! Please don't feel like that! A lot of people like to make fun of ESTPs

    (and I can understand why perfectly)
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    oh dear- I DO use a lot of caps and exclamation points though I actually TRY to tone it down though!

    and I wasn't aiming this at any one person! Please don't feel like that! A lot of people like to make fun of ESTPs

    (and I can understand why perfectly)
    Don't worry, you usually use it appropriately.

    I just have a couple of questions:

    1. Do you like to read?

    2. Where did you learn to put links in your signature/posts and upload avatars?

    3. When you say that you "hate theory," do you mean that you think it's bad all the way around, or that you don't like being put upon to learn it?

    For instance, would you find it easy or complicated to understand if I said something like...

    All SJ's use Si (Introverted Sensing) as their primary or auxiliary function:

    ISFJ:

    Si, Fe, Ti, Ne. (Notice that Si is primary, because it is listed first.)

    ESFJ:

    Fe, Si, Ne, Ti. (Notice that Si is auxiliary, because it is listed second.)

    ISTJ:

    Si, Te, Fi, Ne.

    ESTJ:

    Te, Si, Ne, Fi.

    These four types are called SJ's, because their shared strong Si functions give them all the common desire to preserve familiar traditions, and typically an excellent memory and detail/precision in their work. However, their weaker Ne (notice it's always tertiary [listed third] or inferior [listed last]) makes it more difficult for them to cope with change, and can make them less aware of flaws in the the ways of doing things that they've grown accustomed to.

    How difficult was that to follow? Just testing.

  8. #38
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    1. Do you like to read? Sometimes- I like to read either the news or something funny- I have trouble reading novels because they're so LONG and my attention wanders

    2. Where did you learn to put links in your signature/posts and upload avatars? I know people who can barely bring up a browser window on their own... Trial and error

    3. When you say that you "hate theory," do you mean that you think it's bad all the way around, or that you don't like being put upon to learn it? I'm personally rather confused by theory theoretical discussions somewhat incomprehensible to me because they aren't real in the concrete sense of the word real

    I understood the diagram part of the explanation much better than the reading part, but there are other reasons for that

    You're just happy to have an ESTP to investigate!

    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

    I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!
    Aww, my mom is an ESTP. As much as she drives me up a wall occasionally, she's an amazing person & I feel inspired by her on a fairly regular basis.

    I'm guessing it's the ESTP moving quickly from one moment to the next that makes them the "epitome of what's wrong with SP's". Also, this is a forum dominated by introverts & extraverted intuitives. You're someone that not many of us understand well, I'm guessing.

    With that being said, here are some reasons that you should be proud of your type!

    -ESTPs are extremely intelligent. The Se tends to give off the spacy vibe, but believe me - my mother uses Ti very well. She is super intelligent with people - it really is amazing to watch the Se & Ti work as a team. While she doesn't have the super abstract bent that I have, I can discuss lots of things with her and get an intelligent conversation out of it. Also, she is an amazing Scrabble player and does very well with lots of word games & puzzles.

    -ESTPs GET STUFF DONE. I've never seen anything like it - my mother can accomplish more in one hour than most people do in a week. She doesn't stop... constantly going from one thing to the next thing to the next thing... She is quite possibly the best person to have around when moving, haha. Whenever I'd move to a new apartment in college, I was moved in and out to lunch w/ the family by noon - mainly because my mother just got it done! She is also fairly tactile - if I need furniture put together or something fixed around the house, my mother can do it & do it quickly.

    -ESTPs are fun! My mother would make everything a game - cleaning, homework, etc. She was also so strongly impulsive that we'd go on random road trips on weekends, just for the fun of it. I remember going through a tough time during my freshman year of college - 5 hours away from home. She actually up & drove in the wee hours of the morning to surprise me in the morning with breakfast & took me to a place about an hour away from campus because she thought it'd be fun & cheer me up (and it did!).

    -There is a kind side to the ESTP. They have a tertiary Fe, so they can't be all evil. :P I'm kidding. But I will say that my mother is the type to drop EVERYTHING and take care of those closest to her. She was very self sacrificing for us kids and continues to be - if she only has a dollar, she'll give us two. The way it differs from my Fe (auxillary) is that my mother seems to have less control over it - she will overextend herself moreso than I do.

  10. #40
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    ESTPs are frickin awful, the worst type ever. Half way through thinking about something in their right hand they notice out of the corner of their eye that their left hand has something shiny in it. Now they don't have a right hand, arm or body. All that exists is the shiny.

    ESTP - Smeagol.

    ESTPs are the best type because no matter how shit life is turning out you can show them a shiny and everything is shiny. Even you are shiny because you showed them the shiny thing which is like sooo shiny and cool and have you noticed how butterflies can't fly backward? Oh and my letter was late.

    Let me put it like this, after having tried and tried to get Arilee (must remember she's not posting as Lori on this board) to do something a certain way so that it meshes with what I'm doing later (no this isn't me being dictatorial and no I'm not going to illustrate further), she'll nod and say all the right words and then do something different. It's odd but no matter what the reasoning always begins with "well I was doing that and I thought..."

    "New shiny is shinyer than old shiny. New shiny is shiny"

    Oh and a small hint to ESTPs, If you're doin something and you're wondering why a logical NT like person isn't coming up and pitching in it's because you've blocked them from doing so...probably. If there's no structure to work then people cannot help, only stand by and watch. Structure is necessary for teamwork, not singular concrete instances in a quagmire of variables and total chaos!!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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