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  1. #41
    Anamolic Amalgamation Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent View Post
    I do struggle, but I have to learn to deal with the problem.
    I see. While you're humble and that's admirable. I'd hate to see you suffer as you're another fellow human being and you don't need to be open and self critical of your faults and yes while you're somewhat safe behind the walls of the Internet, still. Words can still hurt.

  2. #42
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I am ok with walls of text. I may gloss over parts, or lack patience if I don't really place value in what the writer does, but that says more about me than they. But generally I'm ok with longer posts, as sometimes it takes a long post to really get everything out one is wanting to articulate. I've definitely done longer posts myself, on occasion, though on my end I try to be as succinct as possible.

    Edit: I am reading Proust right now. That should say something about my ability to read walls of text.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #43
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    @Kheledon I don't think you should compare and contrast you and your wife where you're positive and @Silent is struggling or at least balance it out.
    Thank you for your well-intentioned advice on this subject.

    We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I can assure you that @Silent is emotionally stronger than I am. And, like most ISFPs, she is charming, lovable, and always manages to evoke sympathy from others. I lack that power. I get the shaft (and the criticism).
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.
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  4. #44
    Anamolic Amalgamation Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    Thank you for your well-intentioned advice on this subject.

    We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I can assure you that @Silent is emotionally stronger than I am. And, like most ISFPs, she is charming, lovable, and always manages to evoke sympathy from others. I lack that power. I get the shaft (and the criticism).
    Alright then. I can't say for because I don't know either of you in person. Fi might not show outwardly but it is very real. It's not personal either, I just believe that we don't have to be so open, I used to have that philosophy that being the most open brings the most joy, it turns out more often then not, it's best to leave some details out.

  5. #45
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    I'll read long walls of text as long as there are spaces between paragraphs. If there aren't my eyes just sort of glaze over and I give up. So formatting is important if you want people to read your stuff.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Alright then. I can't say for because I don't know either of you in person. Fi might not show outwardly but it is very real. It's not personal either, I just believe that we don't have to be so open, I used to have that philosophy that being the most open brings the most joy, it turns out more often then not, it's best to leave some details out.
    I admit that it's a fault of mine. I am far too open and expressive. I know this. I'd be better off hiding more, but I loathe hiding, and I am suspicious of those who hide who and what they are.

    I must also add (and I need to comment on another post regarding this topic) that I think Socionics is right on this topic whereas most M/B theorists are wrong. @Silent is not Fi dominant. She's Si dominant (like all ISFPs, she seeks comfort, first and foremost), and her secondary function is Fe (making her ego block SiFe). Her Fe is stronger than mine, and that's why she is both immune to my Fe and utterly charming to nearly everyone she encounters. She uses Fe to create harmony (the other, primary goal of an ISFP), and she does so both masterfully and instinctually. Disharmony causes her physical pain (i.e. it hits her Si), so she uses Fe to adjust the emotional atmosphere of any environment that causes her discomfort. She also uses Fe simply to get people to do whatever it is she wants them to do at a given moment in time. She's very effective with it--much moreso than I. She can certainly generate sympathy better than I can.

    In no way is she an Fi dom. Were she an ISFJ, she would be an Fi dom, but because she's an ISFP, it's her input function (S) that is dominant. Were she a J, her judging function (F) would be dominant.
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.
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  7. #47
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    I admit that it's a fault of mine. I am far too open and expressive. I know this. I'd be better off hiding more, but I loathe hiding, and I am suspicious of those who hide who and what they are.

    I must also add (and I need to comment on another post regarding this topic) that I think Socionics is right on this topic whereas most M/B theorists are wrong. @Silent is not Fi dominant. She's Si dominant (like all ISFPs, she seeks comfort, first and foremost), and her secondary function is Fe (making her ego block SiFe). Her Fe is stronger than mine, and that's why she is both immune to my Fe and utterly charming to nearly everyone she encounters. She uses Fe to create harmony (the other, primary goal of an ISFP), and she does so both masterfully and instinctually. Disharmony causes her physical pain (i.e. it hits her Si), so she uses Fe to adjust the emotional atmosphere of any environment that causes her discomfort. She also uses Fe simply to get people to do whatever it is she wants them to do at a given moment in time. She's very effective with it--much moreso than I.

    In no way is she an Fi dom.
    So she's not an ISFP /SP in mbti terms, only in socionics terms, basically.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Kheledon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    So she's not an ISFP /SP in mbti terms, only in socionics terms, basically.
    To be honest, I am just not sure. She's sp/sx in terms of her instinctual stack. That's pretty certain. As for how she'd translate into MBTI, I am not sure, but she's an ISFP, and that irrational p, according to Socionics, means her irrational input function (either N or S) will be dominant. Those of us who are Js are dominated by our rational, judging function. Thus, for me, as an ENFJ, I am Fe dominant, with Ni secondary, and these two functions work together (always) as my ego (FeNi). I am pretty certain that @Silent has an SiFe ego. Her "role function" (where she goes under stress) is Ni, and her PoLR is Te (she hates to look outside of herself to troubleshoot and find solutions to problems). That's how her functions stack according to Socionics Model A, in any event.

    That makes her an SEI-Si (Hedonist). The following description could not be more accurate:

    Sensory Ethical Introvert SEI, ISFp (Si,Fe)

    Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov

    Sensory subtype Si-ISFp (Si-SEI)

    Appearance: Calm and soft person in interaction. With his presence often pacifies others. Industrious, practical, does everything with a sense of taste. Often engages in fine arts as a hobby. Well-wishing, tactful, unobtrusive. Tries to sympathize, to assist, to provide advice. Loves rest and comfort. Likes talking about his perceptions and sensations. Attentively questions his conversation partner in regard to his or her affairs. Slightly delayed in his behavior and speech, sometimes stretching out words and with difficulty forming clear thoughts. Even if he speaks fast, he doesn't hurry to end the conversation. Able to speak about the same subject with erudition, comprehensively and at great length. Smiles with confidence, nods her or his head as a sign of support. Movements are smooth, stylish, somewhat slow; may appear to waddle and "walk like a duck". Undemonstrative, but clothes and accessories nevertheless attract attention.

    Character: Attentive and caring towards other people, considerate of their convenience. Aware of harmony in communication. Inquisitive, collects various information and shares it with others. Critically evaluates what he hears. Does not like exaggeration, hype - needs facts and justifications. He enjoys when someone argues with him a little, enlivening the conversation, but poorly tolerates people who are aggressive and avoids serious quarrels. In business matters prefers to negotiate at an informal level. Knows how to patiently persuade a person to take on a beneficial or profitable project, but doesn't always notice which undertakings are actually promising. Thus, he can be hesitant in starting on new projects, afraid of making mistakes and feeling at fault. Values his peace and knows how to move away from any sources of irritation.

    Tries under any circumstances to not lose his sense of measure. Keeps neutral in debates. Amiable, will try to find a method to find rapport with most. Even when he has to insist on and defend his own opinions, he is able to maintain good relations. Often acts as a peacekeeper, trying to convince other people to agree to a compromise and come to mutual accord. Doesn't find it easy to deny a person's request, to push someone away, thus is often careful at the beginning of a conversation, and dislikes people who are "sticky" and intrusive. With difficulty determines what a person is capable of and what to expect from him, though he appreciates talented and original individuals. Usually does not criticize anyone and dislikes it when other people are criticized in his presence. May be impatient as a listener. Does not like to compete or to coerce others into doing things against their own will. Has difficulties asserting and defending the interest of his business matters if he is unable to find agreement on an informal level.

    Able to describe events in great detail. Has good memory for sensations: sounds, colors, and smells. Loves nature and good aesthetics in any manifestation. Gravitates towards pleasant experiences. Dresses tastefully. Has an inclination for following the latest styles. Loves comfort and aesthetics, various original decorations. Industrious, loves doing something with his hands. Everything that he takes up does with a sense of taste investing his heart and soul. Does not like commitments and giving promises, since he is afraid that he won't be able to fulfill them. On some he can make an impression of a passive and inert person, since he doesn't see the point in empty hassle and pointless expenditure of efforts. Due to this, often acquires the reputation of a talented slouch, who takes up a philosophical, contemplative stance in life. Strives for good quality of life.

    Warm, gentle, charming, seeks to be in accord and harmony with his environment. Pays attention to manners and behavior of others and evaluates them in his mind. Tries not to burden others with his requests, asks for help only in extreme cases. Generally, will not attempt to draw attention to himself when he feels that nobody is interested in him. Dislikes talking about his failures. By nature private, sensitive, and easily wounded. Turns for help only to people who are close to him and who have proven themselves. Hospitable, likes when food is cooked deliciously and served with appeal. If he is to receive important guests or visitors, spends a lot of time and effort on such occasions, and thus rarely agrees to such events.

    (Si-SEI) Description by Victor Gulenko
    This is an appreciator of well-being, wealth and savoir vivre. Possess a good aesthetic taste, which can show in his appearance, in the setup of his interior, in activities of applied nature, such as artist who depicts landscapes and still life. A hedonist, enjoys providing pleasure to both himself and to other people, appreciates convenience. Looks after his looks.

    Socionics - the16types.info - Socionics Type Subtype Descriptions by V. Meged, A. Ovcharov, and V. Gulenko
    I'd be interested to know what would be different from an M/B perspective.
    MBTI: ENFJ
    M/B Functional Stack: Dominant--Fe, Auxilliary--Ni, Tertiary--Se, Inferior--Ti
    Ego (Jungian): FeNi
    Socionics: EIE-Fe, Beta
    Socionics Functional Stack: Program--Fe, Creative--Ni, Role--Te, PoLR--Si
    Enneagram Type 1
    Tritype 136
    Big Five: SCOEI - sxO|E|i
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    House: Slytherin (the "ethical teacher" type, i.e. Severus Snape)
    Color Code: Blue (intimacy-driven)
    Soul Type: Educator

    Sentio ergo sum.
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  9. #49
    Sweet Summer Dik Dik yama's Avatar
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    @Kheledon I'm an ISFp (SEI) in socionics and ISFJ in MBTI, because the j/p switch works for me, but not all people follow the j/p switch (or even necessarily have any correlation between their MBTI and sociotype at all). @themightyfetus also types SEI/IsFj. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

    There are also members (ex: @Hard) whose sociotype and MBTI are completely different. They are after all separate systems, though within the same root system, so to speak.

    Also, if you are strictly referring to socionics, it's best to leave the j/p uncapitalized (ex. ISFp, ENFj) in order to make it easier for your readers to know you are referencing socionics rather than MBTI (seeing as one's sociotype and MBTI may differ).
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  10. #50
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheledon View Post
    To be honest, I am just not sure. She's sp/sx in terms of her instinctual stack. That's pretty certain. As for how she'd translate into MBTI, I am not sure, but she's an ISFP, and that irrational p, according to Socionics, means her irrational input function (either N or S) will be dominant. Those of us who are Js are dominated by our rational, judging function. Thus, for me, as an ENFJ, I am Fe dominant, with Ni secondary, and these two functions work together (always) as my ego (FeNi). I am pretty certain that @Silent has an SiFe ego. Her "role function" (where she goes under stress) is Ni, and her PoLR is Te (she hates to look outside of herself to troubleshoot and find solutions to problems). That's how her functions stack according to Socionics Model A, in any event.



    I'd be interested to know what would be different from an M/B perspective.
    Well right, socionics defines things differently, thus ISFp is perceiving dominant, dom Si as you say. I don't think you're citing anything inaccurate in terms of socionics, and that's cool that she fits SEI /ISFp /SiFe in socionics perfectly.

    However ISFP in mbti terms, if we bring cognitive functions into it, is Fi Se Ni Te -- basically the ISFj socionics function stacking. So on this forum at least, it's going to be very confusing to people if you're referring to 'isfp' but are not clear you're speaking of socionics isfp.

    Fwiw from what I've seen the two systems are not directly translatable and they're often giving different descriptions of things, functions aren't described in exactly the same way between systems. So I've seen examples of people who type differently in each system - with different cognitive functions even.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ
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