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  1. #21
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    ...she refered to the novel I had written many years ago and said: "I still have it" with a shy smile...She looked a bit embarrassed and said: "I can't believe I didn't keep in touch with you about it."

    You must take her at her word then if you would maintain the relationship. If you do not, the implication is that she is lying to you. Is she? She may be a spirit that you (or anyone else) cannot own. All you may ever have are brief meaningful interactions before she is off again. Like seeing a rare bird we cannot control its arrival or departure or wether or not it poops on our car window.

    This describes her very well. She seems afraid of deep connections, and only has them with old, long-time friends and family (her family and small community mean the world to her). Her cousin tells me she is a "very, very private person" and doesn't feel comfortable opening up to people she doesn't know well.

    You're ISFP. Do you think she was lying?

    AyoitStepho's comment about not writing but calling because it leaves her room to procastinate and forget sounds like her too. I think she might be very forgetful. She told me that the papers pile up on her desk and she has to keep lists.
    Before I left last october, I went to her to say goodbye and be civil, even if I was crushed. She was smiling all over the place at me and asked me if I had had a good time. I said no and she looked absolutely puzzled. I asked her: "Can we keep in touch?" And she said: "Sure!" Then I stared deep and asked if she would answer, pointing out that she hadn't answered past letters. Her cousin exclaimed: "B**** (her name)!!!" with a "You're impossible" kind of tone. And she answered: "Oh, I'm so bad!"

    About appreciation, my paintings were mentioned in a conversation, and she said to her cousin: "Did you see the one she did of me, the one I'm showing everyone at home? I've got to show you." I guess that means she liked it.

    Thanks for all this, Hirsch, really.

  2. #22
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Straightforward like a human-being, not a type.
    I N V I C T U S

  3. #23
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Straightforward like a human-being, not a type.
    I understand this. But I wanted to hear how ISFPs would like to be addressed so they wouldn't feel like I was scolding them, but let them know I was only trying to understand.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    She seems afraid of deep connections...only has them with old friends and family...and doesn't feel comfortable opening up to people she doesn't know well.

    How well does she know you? Does she express genuine interest in your health, family or other personal non-art related matters? It may just be that for her, she feels as if she is being a good friend...to someone who is not an "old" friend or family.

    You're ISFP. Do you think she was lying?

    Based on what I have come to understand I have ISfp preferences. I cannot say that this qualifies me as a sterling example of the type, so I do not feel comfortable assuming that role in supplying a definitive answer. If I were the person you have described or if I were in here situation vis-a-vis you...I would be rather confused and a bit apprehensive. I might wonder what entitles somone to feel they have such a claim upon my life. When I am busy with work and absorbed I have no time available for anyone...not in the sense of rejecting advances but my mind being engaged in a creative task must stay focused or I will lose it. If my work was available at such a rate that it occupied all of my time (and especially if it were communal work like a band) that is where the lion's share of my energy would go. Mhy life would be subordinate to the lifestyle I have worked for.

    AyoitStepho's comment about not writing but calling because it leaves her room to procastinate and forget sounds like her too. I think she might be very forgetful. She told me that the papers pile up on her desk and she has to keep lists.

    It does not sound as if it is easy for you to meet with her personally which would be my preference. As I write my desk is a landslide of paperwork. While I am mindful of practical things I should say I am somewhat forgetful about personal matters.

    She was smiling all over the place at me and asked me if I had had a good time. I said no and she looked absolutely puzzled.

    Was this at one of her performances? She may have been in a very different mental "zone" and your comment may have thrown her. When I used to play during breaks evrybody became just the "audience"...it was vey hard to focus personal attetion on someone. You are in-the-moment.

    I asked her: "Can we keep in touch?" And she said: "Sure!" Then I stared deep and asked if she would answer, pointing out that she hadn't answered past letters. Her cousin exclaimed: "B**** (her name)!!!" with a "You're impossible" kind of tone. And she answered: "Oh, I'm so bad!"

    I don't know how "well known" this person is but do you think quite a few people write to her?

    About appreciation, my paintings were mentioned in a conversation, and she said to her cousin: "Did you see the one she did of me, the one I'm showing everyone at home? I've got to show you." I guess that means she liked it.

    Or, she is placating you. Sadly I have come to the conclusion that almost all human interactions can be reduced to economics. Communication from her is a dear commodity to you for whatever reason. You do not have enough of it and what you do get is unsatisfactory. You have tendered her something you attach significant personal value to and she may not have realized the exchange with you was implicitly contractual (as you see it?). Positive interactions are valued. Good feelings, smiles and laughs will encourage more interaction. Why would you want to put yourself through negative down-in-the-mouth petulance? Even though it may be justified it will gain us nothing and may actually result in a loss.

    She may be working in a very different level of this "economy". Perhaps she maintains many relatively shallow relationships and is satisfied with sheer volume of sales rather than focused speculative ventures that might drag on her personal momentum. I does not mean that she is insincere, just that you both have differing ways of supplying your needs.

    Thanks for all this, Hirsch, really.

    I have been through something similar espescially in my younger days. I believe that I get where you are coming from. I feel you must let go of your expectations of her responsiveness and choose to take what she offers and/or move on to other souls who may share your values?
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  5. #25
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    She used to play in a little-known Celtic band (her cousin was in the band as well, it was mostly popular in the Canadian East Coast about ten years ago). The band broke in 2001 and that was a mess- we exchanged letters about it, and she told me how she was feeling about it, how she needed to regroup and felt stuck, trying to get on with her next stage in life. She now plays at occasional local concerts (it's traditional music), so she's not "popular," no. She mostly plays with her guitarist cousin, it's a bit of a community thing. She herself is a massage therapist and lives in a small town in Nova Scotia. No, I don't think so many people write to her. Not in this way.

    Last time I saw her, we talked a lot about our families (she likes that, I think). I talked about my father's death (she had known him), she told me about her possible marriage and expressed a wish to get in touch with my brother who is a jeweller if she got engaged.

    I was certainly in the audience on the occasion mentioned before (this was right after the incident refered to in the first post), but she said she was to meet me at the break and talk because I was feeling bad (in connection to her actions) and she didn't. I suppose ISFPs don't feel like not keeping their word is wrong. I don't think I have a claim on her life, I don't know what you mean by this... I suppose it is stupid of me to hope her actions will be consistent with her words?

    I don't have such high expectations as you seem to think. I used to expect her to keep her word, but not anymore (guess why). I just want to understand her intentions and make things right. I accept what she will offer, and imagine I will distance myself like I've had to do with other SPs because we have such conflicting values that closeness becomes impossible.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    I suppose ISFPs don't feel like not keeping their word is wrong. I don't think I have a claim on her life, I don't know what you mean by this... I suppose it is stupid of me to hope her actions will be consistent with her words?

    As I mentioned I do not feel qualified to represent all of ISFP-dom and I find blanket labelling them all because of your experience a bit mean. Personally I make every effort to be reliable and keep my word. And should I accidently miss a commitment I am mortified. Does she self identify as an ISFP? Was she tested in any way? It is only a preference. I know that you were interested in how an SP might react....I think I would trust Stepho more on this, I am at a bit of a disadvantage being male....I do not know if you are "stupid" for hoping she will change; let's say at this point your are optimistic. If she continues to treat your sincere interest in this dismaying fashion, and you continue to take it that would be at the least, rather curious on your part. We simply cannot control another's behavior. You have every right to be disappointed and hurt. What we do not have is the right to expect anothers reactions to mirror our interests.

    I don't have such high expectations as you seem to think. I used to expect her to keep her word, but not anymore (guess why).

    That is very reasonable.

    I just want to understand her intentions and make things right.

    I hope that all of this can be worked out. Perhaps you have a good friend in common who might broker a meeting? Perhaps you would be able to alter your perspectives and see the situation differently?


    I accept what she will offer, and imagine I will distance myself like I've had to do with other SPs because we have such conflicting values that closeness becomes impossible.

    I do not have a degree in any discipline that touches on any sort of typology. I have learned some courtesy of this site. Perhaps you have studied this to the extent that you feel comfortable typing others. That is the inherent vice of typology: putting others in an easy to define box. This requires no further effort on our part to understand them more deeply. I can at least say that the ISFP's I've met here in the forum seem to me like a decent group....but then many members here who are not ISFP seem like really good folk I would like to get to know.

    You are an artist. Take this experience and make art from it. Take the gifts you have been entrusted with and make them shine.
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  7. #27
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    I have had other experiences with SFPs, and been through similar disappointments (one was one of my childhood best friends). To me, not keeping my word is like showing great disrespect to a person. In this case, I hurt more because I had invested myself in a very special way. But I am aware that I can't demand from people that they would fill my idealist basket. Reaching integration for me is accepting people as they are. I tend to expect more from people with whom I have given more than my best.

    I suppose SPs might be so easily distracted with what is happening within the moment that they forget and they can't help it. I am trying to understand this perspective and not judge it, but I can't help feeling mocked and ignored when it happens. Remembering commitments is inevitable for me because of my natural NF empathy; when I start to think of acting a certain way, I immediately introject how the other person will feel and react. I can't forget my word, I would hurt people and tarnish my reputation. This introjection must be unnatural and difficult for SPs to do.

    I am trying to understand what is understandable about this point of view and love SPs as they are. As long as I find it wasn't intentional I generally feel ok about it. But my trust is shaken.

  8. #28
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I know generalizing can be a dangerous thing...but if I were to generalize based on type...I would have to agree with KLessard that SPs and NFs (certainly INFs) seem to have very different (even conflicting) values and this can cause a lot of problems in an attemp at a close relationship.
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