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  1. #11
    Senior Member Goosebump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAlwaysSunny View Post
    i think i may be an isfp and ive noticed that im always attracted to guys that seem like estps.
    Same here. I think it's their energy and confidence. The way many ESTPs carry themselves is pretty awesome.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    My boss is ESTP with ISFP wife. Generally I'd say that their relationship is not good. He shuts down when he is around her (I don't think they are having sex either because she just verbally emasculates him).

    Socionics describes these relations as supervision where ISFP is supervisor and ESTP is supervisee. Often attractive at first but goes downhill soon after: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...sion-relations

    ISFPs supervise ESTPs and get supervised by ENFPs
    ESTPs supervise INTPs and get supervised by ISFPs

    ESFPs supervise INFPs and get supervised by ISTPs
    ISTPs supervise ESFPs and get supervised by ENTPs
    Last edited by sulfit; 11-09-2011 at 11:19 PM.

  3. #13
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inebriato View Post
    Turns out i'm dating an ESTP not an ESTJ, so what is your experience between the two types?
    My uncle is ESTP and is wife is ISFP. They get on beautifully. Lot of fun, inside jokes. He's the manly man entrepreneur, and she's the weird artsy-fartsy, girly girl. Easily one of the most fun, functional marriages I've ever seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    My boss is ESTP with ISFP wife. Generally I'd say that their relationship is not good. He shut down when he is around her (I don't think they are having sex either because she just verbally emasculates him). Socionics describes these relations as supervision where ISFP is supervisor and ESTP is supervisee. Often attractive at first but goes downhill soon after: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...sion-relations
    Yeah, my aunt definitely runs the show, but in a behind the scenes kind of way. It's not a problem if power flow in a relationship is more uni-directional if the two people are happy with it, and genuinely respect each other. My aunt always gets what she wants, but she'd never openly contradicts my uncle. If anything, she seems to like to make him feel like her Big Man by being generally helpless and vulnerable most of the time.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    My boss is ESTP with ISFP wife. Generally I'd say that their relationship is not good. He shut down when he is around her (I don't think they are having sex either because she just verbally emasculates him). Socionics describes these relations as supervision where ISFP is supervisor and ESTP is supervisee. Often attractive at first but goes downhill soon after: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...sion-relations
    nope. ESTJ is ISFPs supervisor in socionics.

  5. #15
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    nope. ESTJ is ISFPs supervisor in socionics.
    Nope. Supervision happens when one type's dominant function is inverse of another type's tertiary function. That's exactly the case for ISFPs and ESTPs: ISTP is Fi dominant with is the inverse of ESTP's tertiary function (Fe).

    Socionics ISFp is Si dominant and corresponds to ISFJ in MBTI i.e. ESTJs supervise ISFJs, ISFPs supervise ESTPs.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    Nope. Supervision happens when one type's dominant function is inverse of another type's tertiary function. That's exactly the case for ISFPs and ESTPs: ISTP is Fi dominant with is the inverse of ESTP's tertiary function (Fe).

    Socionics ISFp is Si dominant and corresponds to ISFJ in MBTI i.e. ESTJs supervise ISFJs, ISFPs supervise ESTPs.
    Nope you're wrong in socionics ISFP supervisor is ESTJ read. http://www.socionics.us/relations.shtml#13 ISFPs aren't Fi in socionics they are Si dom....there is also no correspondence to MBTI with socionics the P and J are not switched only lazy people who fail to study socionics just like to say that. You're mixing up MBTI with socionics by calling ISFPs FI dom, and then inverting those functions with ESTP's tertiary (Fe) which makes no sense because MBTI and socionics are two completely separate systems. If you read "blocks of the psyche" in the Wikipedia socionics page it explains all that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics

  7. #17
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Nope you're wrong in socionics ISFP supervisor is ESTJ read. http://www.socionics.us/relations.shtml#13
    It is not ISFP but ISFp. The last letter is lower case to designate an important difference that you have apparently missed. In socionics j/p letters are not assigned the same way as in MBTI. You're a j-type if your dominant function is a judging one, like Te/Fe/Ti/Fi. Since ISFP is dominant in Fi it becomes ISFj in socionics. If you look at that chart ISFj, which is Fi-dom type, is supervisor to ESTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    there is also no correspondence to MBTI with socionics the P and J are not switched only lazy people who fail to study socionics just like to say that.
    I've studied both Socionics for over two years now and all I see is that you clearly don't know your basics and are mixing up types.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    You're mixing up MBTI with socionics by calling ISFPs FI dom, and then inverting those functions with ESTP's tertiary (Fe) which makes no sense because MBTI and socionics are two completely separate systems. If you read "blocks of the psyche" in the Wikipedia socionics page it explains all that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics
    No, MBTI's Fi-dom ISFP is not Socionics Si-dom ISFp. Same person cannot be both Fi and Si dominant type at the same time. Your argument is logically incoherent, as a result what you're saying is complete nonsense.

  8. #18
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    http://forum.socionix.com/info/types/ISFP.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    It is not ISFP but ISFp. The last letter is lower case to designate an important difference that you have apparently missed. In socionics j/p letters are not assigned the same way as in MBTI. You're a j-type if your dominant function is a judging one, like Te/Fe/Ti/Fi. Since ISFP is dominant in Fi it becomes ISFj in socionics. If you look at that chart ISFj, which is Fi-dom type, is supervisor to ESTP.


    I've studied both Socionics for over two years now and all I see is that you clearly don't know your basics and are mixing up types.


    No, MBTI's Fi-dom ISFP is not Socionics Si-dom ISFp. Same person cannot be both Fi and Si dominant type at the same time. Your argument is logically incoherent, as a result what you're saying is complete nonsense.
    2 years is a long time for knowing nothing about socionics, good job. If you studied socionics well enough you would see that the definitions of the functions are different therefore they don't relate to MBTI at all. ISFP in socionics is ISFP in MBTI because Si in socionics is not the same definition of Si in MBTI the definitions of the functions are different between the two models. Aka both systems (MBTI and socioncs) have the same idea about the type but both have a different conception of how the functions work.

    Socionics Si
    "Si is responsible for perception of physical sensations; questions of comfort, coziness, and pleasure; and a sense of harmony and acclimation with one's environment (especially physical). Si understand how well a person or thing's behavior agrees with its nature as well as the differences between comfortable behaviors and positions and uncomfortable ones."

    MBTI si

    "Recalling past experiences, remembering detailed data and what it is linked to.
    Being heavily influenced by prior experiences. Distrusting new information that doesn't match. Assuming an understanding of a situation because it resembles a prior one. Focusing on facts and stored data. Giving lots of specific, sequential details about something. Rating and making comparison."

    Another thing you fail to understand is that socionics has no primary or secondary function they name their functions according to freud's theory of the psyche. "ego" "strong" "super ego" etc. This is a different system altogether, the two are incomparable since MBTi always states that the primary and secondary functions are the two "dominant" socionics doesn't follow that same rule. It's completely absurd to use the "intertpye relations" model that socionics came up for with Mbti (which you seem to do in your own imaginary world) because of these big differences. I could go into more detail but it's dumb to argue with somebody with such little knowledge and understanding of both models no point in wasting my time so I will leave it at that.

  9. #19
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    2 years is a long time for knowing nothing about socionics, good job. If you studied socionics well enough you would see that the definitions of the functions are different therefore they don't relate to MBTI at all.
    No, they aren't. Have you actually read the descriptions? Or are you just parroting a few uninformed posters post on here?

    Take a look:

    MBTI Fi:
    Introverted Feeling is being aware of and cherishing one’s own mental framework of values, beliefs and sense of self. It is being open to emotions and inner sensations. It is also being sensitive to others in an empathetic way. It is knowing what is right and wrong according to one’s personal moral and spiritual compass. It is being authentic. As a gatekeeper of the mind; it admits what is consistent with one’s value and belief framework and rejects what is repulsive or draining. Introverted Feeling seeks harmony with others and harmony within. Introverted Feeling (Fi) is dominant in ISFP & INFP and supportive in ESFP & ENFP personality types.

    Socionics Fi:
    "Fi - introverted feeling, perceives subjective relationships between objects: feelings of attraction and repulsion, like and dislike, need and antipathy; morals" ... "Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other people — in other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals."

    Both definitions are aiming to describe at exactly the same phenomenon, the function of introverted feeling, but simply using different words to get the meaning across. It is also the very same function that Carl Jung has tried to describe in his book Psychological Types on which both MBTI and Socionics are based. Those who fail to see beyond mere words into the very root of subject matter also fail to see that these descriptions are phenomenologically same.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    ... the definitions of the functions are different between the two models. Aka both systems (MBTI and socioncs) have the same idea about the type but both have a different conception of how the functions work.
    No. It sounds like you're getting stuck in semantics of descriptions and do not comprehend that these phenomena that MBTI and Socionics (and Jung before them) attempt to describe are in reality the very same cognitive functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Another thing you fail to understand is that socionics has no primary or secondary function they name their functions according to freud's theory of the psyche. "ego" "strong" "super ego" etc.
    And once again you're getting lost in semantics. Exactly same concepts exist in socionics, just under different names. In Socionics leading function is called base, auxiliary is called creative. It does not matter what they are named as they operate in the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    This is a different system altogether, the two are incomparable since MBTi always states that the primary and secondary functions are the two "dominant" socionics doesn't follow that same rule.
    Wow, you are so mis-informed it is amazing. Socionics types have leading and creative functions in ego block i.e. are the two "dominant" functions of the type. Same as MBTI as you can see.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It's completely absurd to use the "intertpye relations" model that socionics came up for with Mbti (which you seem to do in your own imaginary world) because of these big differences. I could go into more detail but it's dumb to argue with somebody with such little knowledge and understanding of both models no point in wasting my time so I will leave it at that.
    Nope. Same intertype relations that Socionics predicts also unfold in MBTI. There are some very bright posters on this and other MBTI forums who have noted that types get attracted to types who have their tertiary function as dominant or auxiliary. Well that's exactly the same thing that Socionics describes by way of Hidden Agenda.

    Anyways I am not going to continue with this discussion as it sounds like you have little conceptual understanding of these models that you're attempting to discuss here and are would rather debate mere semantics and wordings, which I frankly find boring and pointless.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    MBTI Fi:
    Introverted Feeling is being aware of and cherishing one’s own mental framework of values, beliefs and sense of self. It is being open to emotions and inner sensations. It is also being sensitive to others in an empathetic way. It is knowing what is right and wrong according to one’s personal moral and spiritual compass. It is being authentic. As a gatekeeper of the mind; it admits what is consistent with one’s value and belief framework and rejects what is repulsive or draining. Introverted Feeling seeks harmony with others and harmony within. Introverted Feeling (Fi) is dominant in ISFP & INFP and supportive in ESFP & ENFP personality types.

    Socionics Fi:
    "Fi - introverted feeling, perceives subjective relationships between objects: feelings of attraction and repulsion, like and dislike, need and antipathy; morals" ... "Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other people — in other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals."

    That's funny because I never said anything about Fi at all, I was talking about Si yet you bring Fi into the matter. It's not Fi that socionics and MBTI stuggle with it's Si. The definitions of Si are different. It's funny how you try and turn things around that you can't explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    No. It sounds like you're getting stuck in semantics of descriptions and do not comprehend that these phenomena that MBTI and Socionics (and Jung before them) attempt to describe are in reality the very same cognitive functions.
    It seems as though semantics and descriptions is something that you can't comprehend properly because there is a clear cut difference in the description of SI in mbti and socionics that are different from one another. Not everybody interprets words in the exact same way both socionics and MBTI are proof of this due to their different modeling system of Jung's theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    And once again you're getting lost in semantics. Exactly same concepts exist in socionics, just under different names. In Socionics leading function is called base, auxiliary is called creative. It does not matter what they are named as they operate in the same way.[/I]
    This is a false assumption you can't just assume they operate in the same way, they are two different systems with different meanings attached to them. You have to understand what the theorists are talking about and referencing before you make assumptions about their thoery. If you read the socionics description about it's 8th function you would see that they claim the 8th function (FI in ISFP) is just as strong as their primary(ego) function. MBTI makes no reference of the 8th function being just as strong as their primary. In socionics ISFP DO have FI seen as strong but it's not seen as their primary function. You clearly live in your own bubble not everyone interprets theory in the same way.

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