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  1. #71
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    You're projecting your own values onto the situation.

    He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

    Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his. If she continues to agonize over possibilities and hang on the nuances of his every word without him ever giving her real and obvious encouragement, that is her problem, not his.

    The ISTP is going to expect her to make her own choices. If she continues their physical relationship, the ISTP is going to assume that she is fine with it unless she says otherwise because as far as the ISTP is concerned, they already worked everything out. Even if she's not making good decisions for herself and it's plain to the ISTP, it's not right for her to expect the ISTP to make emotional decisions "for her own good". ISTPs believe in autonomy and people making decisions for themselves.

    If they hadn't had that talk and gotten things out in the open, I'd agree that the ISTP is at fault for seeing something and not bringing it to the table for discussion, but they have, so this is really all on her because I assure you, the ISTP most likely doesn't think there is a problem.
    I absolutely am projecting my own values onto the situation. I agree that she's a big girl, etc, but relationships are not all that cut and dried. I have seen situations where a girl has a crush on a guy and he knows it and makes it clear verbally that he isn't interested in anything serious while all the time playing the girl like a violin -- non-verbally or with mixed verbal signals stringing her along and giving her hope. Yes, the girl is stupid for allowing herself to be played but it is, IMO, selfish and unkind to knowingly do this to someone and I fear that that is what could be happening in this situation.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #72
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Correct.

    For example, my father knew my mother (and was interested in her) for a few years before they began dating and got married. In the meantime, he had all sorts of flings and girlfriends, even though he was only interested in her.

    No point in not enjoying yourself while you're making up your mind about someone.

    Granted, he stopped seeing them even on a friendly basis (doorslammed them, basically) after he married my mother because it wasn't fair to her to keep the strumpets around after he had made his wedding vows.
    You are saying the same thing I am saying. The poster I was replying to seemed to be saying that ISTPs wouldn't drop a FWB just because they met someone they like better because they are loyal and fair. You are saying they will keep the FWB around because they are pragmatic and self-interested, not because they are loyal and fair. It is probably because they are loyal and fair that your dad dropped the other girls when he decided to settle down -- that is the scenario I was talking about when I said the guy would drop her like a hot potato.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #73
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post
    Well you hit all of the nails on the head, didn'tcha?!
    Haha, yes, I've had just a liiiittle bit of experience with you guys.

    You're such emotional retards sometimes. "But she SAID she was fine! Why would she say she was fine if she didn't mean it! That's stupid!"

  4. #74
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    Thanks everybody for sharing such deep insights into an ISTP mind. It's extremely refreshing to see you ISTPs be so true to yourself and can stand up to your will/actions. I'm often the one compromising for others (and in doing so expecting the others to compromise for me as well, which often is not the case) and that's why you ISTPs so attractive...M is everything that I'm not. He lives in the moment, he takes a pretty laid-back approach to everyday life, knows clearly what makes him happy and what doesn't, and lives by it. I admire that.

    But with that said, I do have to disagree on what Pettycure said

    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post

    He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

    Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his.

    Yes, we talked about the relationship, but so far it has ALL been HIM that initiated physical contact (though I do agree I'm particularly bad at initiating that and when we do get physical with each other we have hell of a good time). Even the last time we hooked up (after we decided that we should work on being friends and NOT hook up), he was the one to make the move. I kept telling him no, you're not gonna get it, and tried to push him away, but he had to be insistent..for 3 hours until I finally gave in :-(

    No, I don't willingly subject myself into this pathetic situation, and frankly, I've considered just being strictly sexual with him because there are definitely some aspects to M that scream non-relationship material (i.e. his lack of responsibility, moderate drug abuse problem, etc). Still, I just like being around M, because he's so different from me. He's told me he finds me interesting too, probably for the same reasons that I find him interesting, only in the opposite direction. But I'm starting to realize my feelings for him isn't necessarily love or desire for a relationship at this point (heck, I can deal with all of his problems but honestly I don't know enough about him!), and he probably knew that all along...the whole compartmentalizing thing.

    Last night when I saw him things were normal. Maybe because there were other mutual friends around too, but he didn't make body contacts with me in any way (which is a relief). But he did pop up here and there around me, definitely not the mutual avoidance that was a week ago. That's enough to make me happy.

    I'll continue building on the friendship with him, and if he wants to take this a step further, he will. Otherwise I won't sweat it. That kind of attitude doesn't come naturally to me, so I have to learn...but I can already tell, no matter what happens between us, he will remain one of the memorable people in my life.

  5. #75
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Haha, yes, I've had just a liiiittle bit of experience with you guys.

    You're such emotional retards sometimes. "But she SAID she was fine! Why would she say she was fine if she didn't mean it! That's stupid!"
    LOL, that IS stupid!!!

    My BFF ESTP put it really well. I was going to him for some emotional support/advice/whatever and he says... "It's like that Indian girl on The Office said, Kelly...yeah... 'I mean, who says exactly what they're thinking? What kind of game is that?'" Well, I say what I'm thinking...why wouldn't everyone else? But when ESTP said there was a lot of truth to it, I couldn't help but see he was right. I was like " So...it's *not* true? Why would anyone do that? "
    I 65.63% E 34.38%
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  6. #76
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lasdf23 View Post
    ..but I can already tell, no matter what happens between us, he will remain one of the memorable people in my life.

    true that.

    good on you!

  7. #77
    Member Chuckums's Avatar
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    Some of my rambling, disjointed thoughts and philosophy's that this thread has caused me to share. Want to know the truth? Probably not, but you may not be able to stop yourself from reading this.

    The she devil was right on with the whole thing about just having fun.
    Me? I never had a "girlfriend" till I had a fiance and I was 28 yrs old-just girls I was "seeing". Always sucked in the end because of the hard goodbyes-because you don't want to lie but don't want to insult by telling the whole truth.

    Because it is all just black and white to me-"Your either gonna marry this girl or your just seeing her." No middle ground in my mind and there was no way to justify a commitment that really is a promise that I can't keep. Not fair at all to the girl and not realistic either.

    How do you tell some girl your seeing-"One of the things I want the most is a girl to love and marry, but it's not you."

    Slippy mentioned tit bars-hate 'em too. Dancing-have to get extremely liquored up for that, but that is action, so better 'cause I'm an action kind of guy-I don't want to watch-I want to "DO"!!

    OK, I'll admit it:

    Prostitutes? Now we're talking!- good stuff with a built in way out, no difficult goodbyes. No commitment, pay the money and when your done it's time to leave-a prearranged way out.

    "You want to go to a titty bar?"

    "Hell no-let's slam some drinks and go find some f@ckin whores!"

  8. #78
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So if an ISTP guy meets the girl of his dreams -- somebody he likes, respects, thinks is hot, and has a chance with, he's still going to be spending his free time with a girl who was, for all intents and purposes, his convenient piece of ass? Call me cynical, but . . .
    LOL.

    No. you've missed my point. ISTPs live in the moment...so there' s no relationship manipulation like there is with other types...esp the Fs. For us, no relationship ever ends completely. Doesn't mean we keep sleeping with former partners after we start another intimate relationship. After all, we do minimal emotional investing.

    As for girls or boys of our deams...ISTPs are not romantics...we don't dream...we are simply with the person of the moment. The whole notion of soulmates is utter nonsense to us. Another NF Hollywood myth.

    There is no past, no future, only NOW.

    A bit hyperbolic, but only a bit.

  9. #79
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    What is that cool breeze? And where are my clothes!

  10. #80
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Isaac View Post
    Some of my rambling, disjointed thoughts and philosophy's that this thread has caused me to share. Want to know the truth? Probably not, but you may not be able to stop yourself from reading this.

    The she devil was right on with the whole thing about just having fun.
    Me? I never had a "girlfriend" till I had a fiance and I was 28 yrs old-just girls I was "seeing". Always sucked in the end because of the hard goodbyes-because you don't want to lie but don't want to insult by telling the whole truth.

    Because it is all just black and white to me-"Your either gonna marry this girl or your just seeing her." No middle ground in my mind and there was no way to justify a commitment that really is a promise that I can't keep. Not fair at all to the girl and not realistic either.

    How do you tell some girl your seeing-"One of the things I want the most is a girl to love and marry, but it's not you."

    Slippy mentioned tit bars-hate 'em too. Dancing-have to get extremely liquored up for that, but that is action, so better 'cause I'm an action kind of guy-I don't want to watch-I want to "DO"!!

    OK, I'll admit it:

    Prostitutes? Now we're talking!- good stuff with a built in way out, no difficult goodbyes. No commitment, pay the money and when your done it's time to leave-a prearranged way out.

    "You want to go to a titty bar?"

    "Hell no-let's slam some drinks and go find some f@ckin whores!"

    Lots of ISTP truth here.

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