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  1. #61
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You are the only one stressing/agonizing, don't you see that? NFs, why are you always obsessing over this stuff? And why do you ask questions when you don't really want the answers? I don't know how many posts I've read along similar lines. If you are the kind of person who needs a lot of reassurance and stability and emotional support, you shouldn't be in a relationship with an ITP. You won't get what you need and you'll annoy the hell out of them.
    um, wrong. that was my female istp friend who was obsessing over the text. not me. although, i am prone to obsession. generally, i try not to take myself to seriously... ha. at any rate, i think you can be "the kind of person who needs a lot of reassurance and stability and emotional support" (i.e. an NF) and be in a successful relationship with an ITP. that's not to say there wouldn't be any issues, but it depends on how much of a priority that need is and where else you can gain that emotional support (from yourself or others).

  2. #62
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    I have found that most people initially distrust ISTPs.

    ISTPS are voracious information gatherers. And yet we give very little information out about ourselves. Many assume we do this to manipulate others...but that is usually other types projecting their own issues onto us. We gather information so we can use it later to solve problems that may arise or to help others out. And we do not offer information about ourselves because it threatens our autonomy which is one of our highest values.

    It usually takes a year or two for those who initially distrust us to realize we are not manipulative or cold-hearted at all. But it does take time.

    There are some who never see it. But that is because they themselves are lacking in self-knowledge and empathy.

    I consider ISTPS to be the gargoyles of the world. We appear frightening...indeed we scare off the insincere and half-hearted (as gargoyles were meant to do in the Middle Ages), but once others get past our unpleasant and stony exterior, they find a vast cathedral of light and joy, that will stand forever and always be there no matter how often they come and go.

  3. #63
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    I have found that most people initially distrust ISTPs.

    ISTPS are voracious information gatherers. And yet we give very little information out about ourselves. Many assume we do this to manipulate others...but that is usually other types projecting their own issues onto us. We gather information so we can use it later to solve problems that may arise or to help others out. And we do not offer information about ourselves because it threatens our autonomy which is one of our highest values.

    It usually takes a year or two for those who initially distrust us to realize we are not manipulative or cold-hearted at all. But it does take time.

    There are some who never see it. But that is because they themselves are lacking in self-knowledge and empathy.

    I consider ISTPS to be the gargoyles of the world. We appear frightening...indeed we scare off the insincere and half-hearted (as gargoyles were meant to do in the Middle Ages), but once others get past our unpleasant and stony exterior, they find a vast cathedral of light and joy, that will stand forever and always be there no matter how often they come and go.
    Really? ISTPs are often the most chill people in the room, and I find people feel at ease with them instantly. My brother is one, and some other acquaintances, and that's the overall effect I see.

    Contrasted with me, which is, "What the hell is wrong with that guy."



  4. #64
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^Substitute "dark, miserable basement" for "cathedral of light and joy" and you could be describing INTPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    um, wrong. that was my female istp friend who was obsessing over the text. not me. although, i am prone to obsession.
    Ah. I apologize. I completely misread your post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #65
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Really? ISTPs are often the most chill people in the room, and I find people feel at ease with them instantly. My brother is one, and some other acquaintances, and that's the overall effect I see.

    Contrasted with me, which is, "What the hell is wrong with that guy."
    I see your point. I was talking more about long-term situations...rather than momentary social events. It's when relationships, at work or otherwise, begin to develop that the emotional/informational stone wall is encountered.

  6. #66
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Um, long post! I had to catch up and reply to things

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    pretty much. i'm not asking for a lot though. i would enjoy a relationship founded on acceptance (both ways). more or less at least. i'd like to meet someone who gets to know me, and yet still sticks around.. i mean, like, really know me (if i even got to that point at all). what i'm not about to do is play up my good side, or cater to someone's need for a perfect partner or soulmate, or whatever. too much work.. relationships suck because it's easy to get carried away with what's ideal, and not truly accepting someone as they are.
    A-freakin'-men. Take it or leave it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It is a completely casual thing. What part of that have you failed to understand? ISTPs are good at compartmentalizing. Right now, you're just a fun lay he's not going to turn down in a hurry. You shouldn't count on that changing, given the way the relationship started and has developed. If you find that difficult to deal with, you need to think about ending it now. If not, just enjoy it for what it is. The whole "we musn't do this again" thing he probably just views as a challenge/way out when he gets bored.
    I agree with the compartmentalizing. I've noticed that it's exactly with relationships that I can do it really well. Or, I guess with *non*relationships. If he's not attracted, if he has a significant other of any kind... It's an instant turn off. There are a few others in the list of instant turn-offs, but those are the biggest most obvious ones. I can have a crush on a guy for awhile, but as soon as I know he's not attracted or that he's taken, the crush pretty much ends instantly. I'm wasting my time on the guy, moving on! There *are* other fish in the sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I can detach from feelings and get past things really easily. I can move into the moment very easily and move beyond things from the past in regards to being in the moment. I can do this with feelings toward people and compartmentalize on a situational basis. If you change the situation my feelings and actions will tend to change along with it. I tend to live in the moment in this regard. I can be pissed at someone for something and then turn around in a different situation like nothing happened with that same person.
    Yep! +1

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    My thought in this regard, if your ok, and I am ok, then thats all that matters in a relationship and a relationship is between 2 people.

    I like your stance of just accepting the complication instead of arguing about the complication.
    I've got a couple of friends who don't really understand that about me. I was telling a friend of mine about a (2nd) date I had recently and he asked me if "yall smooched"...which at this point isn't information I care to dole out to this friend 'cause of how he's used information in the past. He gives me crap about things, and makes fun of things and he's really nosey... The only good solution is to not tell him things. I was (ugh) kinda testing him to begin with by telling him about the date at all...which I feel kinda bad doing. I'd *like* to share these things with him, but he pushes and pushes for information that I'm not willing to give and it's frustrating. At that point I informed him that the smooch status was of no relevance 'cause I thought it was a successful date regardless, while he argued that to *him* it would be an indicator of success...but his rating doesn't matter 'cause he was no part of my date (and doesn't even know the guy).

    Actually, that story doesn't really address the compartmentalizing thing. But with regards to that - A while back he was trying to set me up with a mutual friend and he kept asking and asking and asking about how I felt about the guy. I said "Well, I don't think he's attracted to me, so it's really a moot point." And he kept asking what *my* feelings were and I was just like "Dude! Seriously! Not relevant!!!" I couldn't get that thru his head tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    ISTP's never look for anything serious. That's why we are single for long periods of time. Yes. He stated he didn't want a relationship and I agreed with that. My point was letting her know that just because he doesn't want one doesn't mean he doesn't have feelings for her.

    A lot of these threads paint ISTP's as cold and unfeeling. We do feel and have emotions. I would say intense ones. The difference is we just don't feel the need to show, talk about or act on them very much.
    Yep. My stance is ALWAYS "We'll see what happens." At some point if I still don't want a relationship with someone it's probably 'cause I'm just not that into them - either 'cause there's someone else or 'cause I don't see it going anywhere with them. I do agree that not wanting a relationship and not having feelings for someone are different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    That went on for about eight years, and I dated and I FWB...but never brought those up when hanging out and never dissed her in-between. Never once hid the fact that friendship existed in telling my girlfriend of the moment, that I couldn't go out because my old friend and I had plans.

    Wasn't ever sure of exactly why I couldn't say to my old friend, I'm dating so and so and...we did this or that or whatever. Wasn't that I thought she couldn't handle it, and/or would reject being friends. Hell I don't know why...[/B]
    Y'know, I've had some close friends that there are just some topics we don't really bring up. Girl I've known since I was 5 (so 20 years now)...we RARELY talk relationship stuff. We just check in to see what the status of the other's relationship is. We definitely don't go into feelings or anything. At some point it would be kinda weird to divulge that type of information. Not like it would make me feel awkward or anything, but it seems like it might change the dynamic of the friendship. If I'm happy with the way it is and I have another outlet for whatever topics, then I'm ok with not talking about some stuff.



    Last, but certainly not least, regarding the OP... I agree with what almost everyone else has said wholeheartedly. You really need to figure things out for you and not for him. Having said that, I'd quit wasting my time. Sure, it might be fun, sure, he *might* have feelings somewhere, but I'd back off and if he comes back around, then maybe he's ready...otherwise, he's not interested. Stating that I don't want a relationship (as I said earlier in my post) prolly means I'm not into you and don't see it going anywhere romantically. I've said it before and that's been exactly the case for me. It's not a particularly easy thing to say when I know the guy has feelings for me, so I've definitely meant it when I've said it. I know everyone is different, but that's my experience with it.

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  7. #67
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    ISTPs do not drop people like hot potatoes. In fact they are likely to remain friends with whomever they've encountered in life for all their life. ISTPS are egalitarians and highly attuned to issues of fairness and justice. There's a lot of NF and NT projection going on here.
    So if an ISTP guy meets the girl of his dreams -- somebody he likes, respects, thinks is hot, and has a chance with, he's still going to be spending his free time with a girl who was, for all intents and purposes, his convenient piece of ass? Call me cynical, but . . .
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #68
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If he knows she has feelings for him that he is unwilling or unable to reciprocate and knows she is probably going to be hurt, but is still willing to engage in the relationship so he can have a convenient piece of ass, that is, IMO, a pretty jerky thing to do. It's not unfair or dishonest, but it is unkind and selfish.
    You're projecting your own values onto the situation.

    He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

    Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his. If she continues to agonize over possibilities and hang on the nuances of his every word without him ever giving her real and obvious encouragement, that is her problem, not his.

    The ISTP is going to expect her to make her own choices. If she continues their physical relationship, the ISTP is going to assume that she is fine with it unless she says otherwise because as far as the ISTP is concerned, they already worked everything out. Even if she's not making good decisions for herself and it's plain to the ISTP, it's not right for her to expect the ISTP to make emotional decisions "for her own good". ISTPs believe in autonomy and people making decisions for themselves.

    If they hadn't had that talk and gotten things out in the open, I'd agree that the ISTP is at fault for seeing something and not bringing it to the table for discussion, but they have, so this is really all on her because I assure you, the ISTP most likely doesn't think there is a problem.

  9. #69
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So if an ISTP guy meets the girl of his dreams -- somebody he likes, respects, thinks is hot, and has a chance with, he's still going to be spending his free time with a girl who was, for all intents and purposes, his convenient piece of ass? Call me cynical, but . . .
    Correct.

    For example, my father knew my mother (and was interested in her) for a few years before they began dating and got married. In the meantime, he had all sorts of flings and girlfriends, even though he was only interested in her.

    No point in not enjoying yourself while you're making up your mind about someone.

    Granted, he stopped seeing them even on a friendly basis (doorslammed them, basically) after he married my mother because it wasn't fair to her to keep the strumpets around after he had made his wedding vows.

  10. #70
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    You're projecting your own values onto the situation.

    He talked with her about their relationship. He put his cards on the table, she put hers on the table, they came to an understanding -- or so he thought.

    Once they had that talk and got everything out in the open, the ball was in her court. She is her own person. It is not his job, nor is it his right, to make decisions for her. If she continues the relationship knowing it is going to hurt her, that is her problem, not his. If she continues to agonize over possibilities and hang on the nuances of his every word without him ever giving her real and obvious encouragement, that is her problem, not his.

    The ISTP is going to expect her to make her own choices. If she continues their physical relationship, the ISTP is going to assume that she is fine with it unless she says otherwise because as far as the ISTP is concerned, they already worked everything out. Even if she's not making good decisions for herself and it's plain to the ISTP, it's not right for her to expect the ISTP to make emotional decisions "for her own good". ISTPs believe in autonomy and people making decisions for themselves.

    If they hadn't had that talk and gotten things out in the open, I'd agree that the ISTP is at fault for seeing something and not bringing it to the table for discussion, but they have, so this is really all on her because I assure you, the ISTP most likely doesn't think there is a problem.
    Well you hit all of the nails on the head, didn'tcha?!
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