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  1. #21
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    What MDP2525 said is spot on... but I wanna add:

    ENFJ + ISTP

    ENFJ is extremely attracted to ISTP practicality/pragmatism.
    ENFJ secretly annoyed at feeling obligated to take pressure off ISTP in social situations.
    ENFJ is both envious of/grateful for:
    - ISTP ability to "shut off" overwhelming feelings & organize their heads.
    - ISTP ability to make decisions without unnecessary judgments.
    - ISTP ability to finish projects & develop talents.
    ISTP makes ENFJ feel "safe."
    ISTP insecurities can be increased by ENFJ smothering/doting.
    ISTP need for independence fuels ENFJ need for affirmation (& visa versa).
    ISTP has more trouble emoting or expressing feelings when ENFJ has/is.
    Yeah...I got poems and other cheesy stuff from my ENFJ ex and I was just like "uhh....thanks?" and thinking on the inside "Oh crap! What do I do in return?!?!?!? He's going to think I hate him if I don't do anything!"

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Oh yeah. They are very skeptical and somewhat nosy. My ESTJ would go on my computer and check my computer history. It annoyed the hell out of me. I told him to quit. He said I could do the same to him. Well, I have no desire to check up on you so don't do it to me. He kept doing it every time he visited. I ended up auto deleting my history. He came over and was like, "Why did you delete your history?" I told him that since he didn't want to respect my wish to quit checking my stuff then I'd find a way so he couldn't.

    I will always swim against a current I don't like. No need to struggle.
    Omg. I know exactly what you mean. I haven't had much exp with ESTJs, but some people have treated me like this before. One was my psycho paranoid roommate. She had a rule that if either of us didn't want someone in the apartment, that the other wasn't allowed to bring them over. As soon as she made that rule I was thinking "um, ok? I'm not gonna use it, whatever." Turns out she *did* use it on me tho. My best friend apparently kicked her stupid dog and roomie wouldn't let her back in - not even to use the bathroom

    Another time this guy I was kinda dating said that we'd remain exclusive unless we gave the other 2 weeks notice about someone else... Um, this isn't a job?! Wtf. That was stupid. Also meant we weren't exclusive at all if all we had to do was say "hey, in 2 weeks I'm gonna go on a date with this other person..." *sigh*

    Arbitrary rules between people are stupid.

    Right now I'm friends with a girl who is uncomfortable talking about her friendship with this guy she used to date for a long time. Makes me a little uneasy 'cause I don't feel like I can say anything around her about him. I certainly don't feel like I can ask either 'cause it seems like I'm interrogating her when I know she doesn't *really* want to talk about it. Idk, it's weird when people make rules for friendship. I say just let it happen. Don't worry about it. The truth comes out eventually, might as well squish possibility for rumors by getting it out now.
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  2. #22
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Omg. I know exactly what you mean. I haven't had much exp with ESTJs, but some people have treated me like this before. One was my psycho paranoid roommate. She had a rule that if either of us didn't want someone in the apartment, that the other wasn't allowed to bring them over. As soon as she made that rule I was thinking "um, ok? I'm not gonna use it, whatever." Turns out she *did* use it on me tho. My best friend apparently kicked her stupid dog and roomie wouldn't let her back in - not even to use the bathroom
    She sounds lovely.

    I don't understand why some people think mutual respect for another human being isn't an adequate measure of establishing boundaries and therefore they have to make up arbitrary rules to keep things "fair".

    BTW. ESTJ took it in stride and never brought it up or got upset about being blocked. So that was cool. Up to that point, I don't think he took me seriously about telling him to stop. I know. Shocking that someone doesn't take an ISTP seriously when they say they don't like something.

    Another time this guy I was kinda dating said that we'd remain exclusive unless we gave the other 2 weeks notice about someone else... Um, this isn't a job?! Wtf. That was stupid. Also meant we weren't exclusive at all if all we had to do was say "hey, in 2 weeks I'm gonna go on a date with this other person..." *sigh*



    Right now I'm friends with a girl who is uncomfortable talking about her friendship with this guy she used to date for a long time. Makes me a little uneasy 'cause I don't feel like I can say anything around her about him. I certainly don't feel like I can ask either 'cause it seems like I'm interrogating her when I know she doesn't *really* want to talk about it. Idk, it's weird when people make rules for friendship. I say just let it happen. Don't worry about it. The truth comes out eventually, might as well squish possibility for rumors by getting it out now.
    If it's a mutual friend I feel your pain.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  3. #23
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    She sounds lovely.

    I don't understand why some people think mutual respect for another human being isn't an adequate measure of establishing boundaries and therefore they have to make up arbitrary rules to keep things "fair".

    BTW. ESTJ took it in stride and never brought it up or got upset about being blocked. So that was cool. Up to that point, I don't think he took me seriously about telling him to stop. I know. Shocking that someone doesn't take an ISTP seriously when they say they don't like something.
    +1348402930^infinity to the bold!

    What's wrong with people?? When I say something makes me feel a certain way...WHY DON'T THEY BELIEVE ME?

    If it's a mutual friend I feel your pain.
    Yar. Altho I've decided in the past couple of days that if she's going to act like that, then I'm just not going to really be friends with her. Screw all of these boundaries that are imposed 'cause you freakin' feel weird. I just don't feel weird about so many things. She and dude and another mutual friend are The Awkward Family, as I've dubbed them. I was part of their little family for a bit, but I'm emancipating myself. I can't make myself be friends with people with all of these rules (especially these rules that I just have to pick up on!!! FRAK THAT!). I started a week-ish ago by not asking any of them what they're doing or if they wanna do anything, and today by not going to lunch with them. I figure I'll withdraw almost 100% from them in a few weeks from now 'cause I'm going on a 10 day trip at the beginning of Feb. I find that leaving the routine and coming back is a good way to get out of something. "Oh, yeah, been busy, went on a trip, crazy times..." Moving on! Also just moved into my house, so I'm going to have projects to keep me plenty busy without them needing to be involved. (omg, I love trips to the hardware store!)

    /off topic rant.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post
    Yeah...I got poems and other cheesy stuff from my ENFJ ex and I was just like "uhh....thanks?" and thinking on the inside "Oh crap! What do I do in return?!?!?!? He's going to think I hate him if I don't do anything!"
    With my ISTP its compliments. I can't turn of my blatant Fe when I'm content & he's gorgeous & quite splendid so I just blurt it out. It doesn't really feel good to him unless he's looking for it, so he'll try to say something back (for the same reason you described) when I'm more looking for a reaction or nothing at all. I can tell it makes him uncomfortable because he doesn't feel at ease giving feedback like that or pretending it makes him happy when it honestly just sort of rolls off him. Plus, I maybe wrong but, I think it actually makes him question what I really think about him or whether or not what I'm saying means anything to me. Its like I make him more self-conscious or the form of my compliments seem shallow.
    ____________________________________________
    "In my soul rages a battle without victor. Between faith without proof and reason without charm." - Sully Prudhomme

  5. #25
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post
    +1348402930^infinity to the bold!

    What's wrong with people?? When I say something makes me feel a certain way...WHY DON'T THEY BELIEVE ME?
    I've thought about this. I think it's because we state what upsets us in the same way we state the answer to most mundane questions we are asked everyday. We don't cry or pout or yell we just - say it. From the other side this must look like we aren't serious or they can't gauge the seriousness? That's the best answer I can come up with. Maybe some others can shed some light on it.


    I figure I'll withdraw almost 100% from them in a few weeks from now 'cause I'm going on a 10 day trip at the beginning of Feb. I find that leaving the routine and coming back is a good way to get out of something. "Oh, yeah, been busy, went on a trip, crazy times..." Moving on! Also just moved into my house, so I'm going to have projects to keep me plenty busy without them needing to be involved. (omg, I love trips to the hardware store!)

    /off topic rant.
    Good plan of action. I love the smell of hardware stores, gasoline and most of all motorcycle exhaust.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  6. #26
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I've thought about this. I think it's because we state what upsets us in the same way we state the answer to most mundane questions we are asked everyday. We don't cry or pout or yell we just - say it. From the other side this must look like we aren't serious or they can't gauge the seriousness? That's the best answer I can come up with. Maybe some others can shed some light on it.
    Y'know, that's about all I can come up with too. Frustrates the crap out of me.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I've never had good experience with roommates.. Seems like everyone wants to create arbitrary rules like the above.

  8. #28
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmartinez84 View Post
    Y'know, that's about all I can come up with too. Frustrates the crap out of me.
    "She can't possibly be serious if she's not blowing up like Mount Vesuvius on Pompeii."

    It seems as if - if a woman is not saying something in the heat of the moment, or an emotional state, that it is not taken to be as important without the fireworks. If one actually pipes up about something we don't like - if it's gotten to the point that a primarily easygoing and flexible nature has been violated or annoyed - that means it's a thing of mild importance.

  9. #29
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged View Post
    "She can't possibly be serious if she's not blowing up like Mount Vesuvius on Pompeii."

    It seems as if - if a woman is not saying something in the heat of the moment, or an emotional state, that it is not taken to be as important without the fireworks. If one actually pipes up about something we don't like - if it's gotten to the point that a primarily easygoing and flexible nature has been violated or annoyed - that means it's a thing of mild importance.
    If I get to the Vesuvius point, it's pretty much the point of no return

    I guess it's something I'll have to work on projecting better or something. *sigh*
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  10. #30
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged View Post
    "She can't possibly be serious if she's not blowing up like Mount Vesuvius on Pompeii."

    It seems as if - if a woman is not saying something in the heat of the moment, or an emotional state, that it is not taken to be as important without the fireworks. If one actually pipes up about something we don't like - if it's gotten to the point that a primarily easygoing and flexible nature has been violated or annoyed - that means it's a thing of mild importance.
    Yeah. This is how it is at my job. People think I'm a real bitch because after a few times of politely repeating a request of a co-worker and having it go ignored I do blow up. At that point, they listen - but because they don't want to make me angry again. I hate that it gets to that point but if it didn't I'd be doing their jobs and that's not gonna happen.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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