[ESTP] when ESTPs feel hurt...

[sculpting]

okay, so I work with an older ESTP man and am as close to friends as an ENFP will be able to get to an ESTP given the massive diffs.

I noticed trends due to out tert Fe/Te differences.

1. He never says mean things to people he cares for.
I actually will playfully insult locker room style those I care for. If I insult you and pick on you, I really like you.

2. When under stress he becomes calm
When I am under stress I become agitated.

3. When angry, frustrated or irritated he will withdraw
When I am angry, frustrated or irritated I will be very direct and even confrontational.

4. So my observation: When I am hurt I will withdraw.

Does he mistake this for his angry, frustrated withdraw in point 3? Thus he thinks I am mad when I am really hurt?

Also what would the ESTP response to being hurt be? Would you be direct about your hurt feelings?

thanks!

 

[Charmed Justice]

The ESTPs I know playfully insult people they like all the time, occasionally going too far, but all in good fun!

My ESTP best friend does show it when she's really hurt. Overtime, she'll talk, so long as she doesn't feel pressured to, but it takes her awhile to identify the feeling. She doesn't usually try to read into my emotions, unless she picks them up through my body language. She's usually spot on with her assessment, but that's it. No reading into the "whys" of how I feel, which is cool, I just tell her. Another ESTP I've been close to was the same way. All it took was a little explanation. Pretty no-nonsense, no big deal-I like! My observation of my ESTPs is that they quickly look for something to do inorder to discharge the negative emotion(go out to the club, play a sport, run, drive,etc..). They may be direct if you ask and the hurt is actually a big deal to them, but other than that, neither are all that interested in marinating in the emotion or making that big of an issue out of it.

 

[une_autre]

When I am angry, frustrated, irritated you can bet everybody will know about it. Maybe my outward manifestation will be milder towards people that are not close, nonetheless I get pretty confrontational.

When hurt, I will let people know about it. I won't spill my entire soul in front of them, but most certainly I will not withdraw. It is not in my character to stay alone and pity myself. I don't like feeling like this and I will do something to distract myself from it and to get over it, including talking to others about it. I am not the kind of person to keep this for myself. I don't know how it's with other ESTPs, as I haven't pinpointed too many in my life, but hurt and anger pretty much come in a package. It's really hard not to get angry on the person that hurt me and I am still working on my anger management . I am quite temperamental, so they say.


As to when other people are hurt, I can tell that. What I decide to do is a different story and depends on my relationship with that person and on the circumstances, so sometimes it might come across as simply not realizing how they are feeling.

 

[Poki]

okay, so I work with an older ESTP man and am as close to friends as an ENFP will be able to get to an ESTP given the massive diffs.

I noticed trends due to out tert Fe/Te differences.

1. He never says mean things to people he cares for.
I actually will playfully insult locker room style those I care for. If I insult you and pick on you, I really like you.

2. When under stress he becomes calm
When I am under stress I become agitated.

3. When angry, frustrated or irritated he will withdraw
When I am angry, frustrated or irritated I will be very direct and even confrontational.

4. So my observation: When I am hurt I will withdraw.

Does he mistake this for his angry, frustrated withdraw in point 3? Thus he thinks I am mad when I am really hurt?

Also what would the ESTP response to being hurt be? Would you be direct about your hurt feelings?

thanks!

I think STPs are like salamander when it comes to things so it really depends on what you have presented him with and how much. We adjust accordingly. With me its all about tone and context. I had a friend listen to me and my son go back and forth and she was like, wow you guys are fighting like you are equals. Its pretty fun, but I have to back down as I am still in the process of teaching him how far to push and what areas to avoid. So test STPs and give us time to adjust to your style.

In regards to hurt, let us go and we will be fine. I dont like to complain or let things get everone else all moody. Change the topic, redirect somewhere else and I forget really quick and its over. Anger is a different topic and I tend to snap as a means to end it fast, just give up and say "I dont care do what you want", or become a smart ass. I try to be pretty obvious in my tone. My ESTP cousin can easily tell when I turn from joke into irritated and knows to back off.

Test us and see how we start to respond. We are like salamanders, some may take a little longer then others. Fe is about others emotions and we need to get a feel for how we can respond and play off of how you respond towards us. We read tone pretty good.

The ESTP I know responds pretty similiar to me in regards to hurt, anger, etc. He is just more socially outgoing.

 

[stellar renegade]

I rarely get that upset so it's hard for me to say, and I think it depends on context like poki said.

But I think the most consistent pattern is that I'll withdraw from others unless they're the one making me upset, and then I'll give them whatfore if I think that's the only way they'll get it or calmly explain my point of view if there's a chance they will. I can be pretty confrontational, but it's always under my control. If I consider them too much of a threat to confront, though, I may back down and either let them know some other way or use their complaint against me (if they have one) against them later as soon as they fall short of their own standard.

I'm quite vicious that way.

I think I'm with une_autre, though, that if I get hurt I'm usually angry, too. If someone unintentionally hurts me I can bear up under it pretty well and just shake it off. If their offense was intentional or through some kind of bad neglect then I feel justified in being angry as well as hurt. Otherwise I'm cool.

But that's a rarity, like I said. I pride myself on being flexible enough to almost never get upset. Others interpret it as being "nice" which I hate, because I'm not being particular sacrificial, I just like to be as flexible as possible. I view it as just being smart.

Of course, I also like the occasional dispute just for the hell of it. My mom always used to say I liked to argue, and I'd reply with, "We aren't arguing, we're just having a discussion!" Evidently other people have a way lower argument threshold than I do.

Sometimes I'm with Billy Idol. I kinda want to disagree just so I can bring out the guns.

"I love it when someone insults me. That means that I don't have to be nice anymore."

 

[une_autre]

Of course, I also like the occasional dispute just for the hell of it. My mom always used to say I liked to argue, and I'd reply with, "We aren't arguing, we're just having a discussion!" Evidently other people have a way lower argument threshold than I do.

Sometimes I'm with Billy Idol. I kinda want to disagree just so I can bring out the guns.

Life would be just plain boring without this.

 

[stellar renegade]

Life would be just plain boring without this.

YUP YUP!

I HAVE to verbally sparr with others or I literally feel dead inside. I hate it when people are way too fucking nice for that exact fucking reason. Plus I feel pandered to, as if I NEED them to be nice.

I wish more people who argued with me got this, it'd go much easier for them. I guess they tend to project their own emotions onto me and think I'm really all that upset, when I'm just arguing for the thrill of it.

Of course my ENTJ dad raised me to be somewhat of a softie (and you know how much control ENTJs can have) so I have some of that influence on me but I told him a long time ago that I was pissed that he tried to raise me that way.

Cuz something inside me wants to just violently claw its way out.

God, that just sounds like the movie Aliens or Men In Black. *shudder*

 

[Wiley45]

I can be pretty confrontational, but it's always under my control. If I consider them too much of a threat to confront, though, I may back down and either let them know some other way or use their complaint against me (if they have one) against them later as soon as they fall short of their own standard.

Exactly how my ESTP works with confrontation.

 

[une_autre]

Exactly how my ESTP works with confrontation.

Smart, but utterly frustrating.

 

[Wiley45]

^ Yes to both.

 

[SilkRoad]

I made an ESxP mad (hurt?) recently through something that was kind of both our faults...He lashed out at me, didn't acknowledge any responsibility, then later told me he was still annoyed about it but "let's forget about it."

As a result I've withdrawn because I don't want to get hurt again (he's also gone away for an extended period of time so withdrawing was easy, though if things were ok we would have been in touch at least once in a while by email etc.) I don't know what to do about it. I don't think facing up to tricky emotional/ethical situations (both of which this was) is something he wants to do, but I feel like he really devalued my friendship.

 

[Poki]

I agree alot with what stellar said and the whole "nice" thing really gets under my skin because of how it comes off to others like I am being pushed over. My philosophy is you get what you ask for. So if you push me over I will have no desire to be nice, but I will always be tolerable in person. STPs are really good at turning things around back on you.

I like to argue and half the time I get put in my place as I will start arguments just to argue without actually understanding any of it. I key off of the other person and find logical inconsistancies that stick out like a sore thumb. 99.9% of my arguments have no agenda, goal, and dont even have much backing. I will kinda make you argue with yourself. I will get heated, but in no way is this angry. Online its really hard to tell as if I want to I can become snide, rude, laugh, etc. Its all a play on how we are interacting and what I see in regards to how you come across. Dont ever judge my stance, my opinion, my temper, etc. in an argument with me because thats not my focus within an argument. My goal is to pull out as much information as possible in regards to multiple sides of a scenario in turn causing you to argue with yourself. I am not good at debate as I dont argue to win, but to pull out information.

Very little hurts me personally, most things I consider an opinion. In a feeling of hurt driven by what someone says you have what they say, how it makes them feel, and how much or how little they actually dis-approve of something. I will make a comment to my mom that bothers her, I can see it and shortly after she seeks assurance that my feelings for her havnt changed. Once she gets that assurance everything is good. My sone does the same thing, but instead of the asking, he more tries to pull the acceptance out of you with actions.

With me if you hurt me you will know from my response as I cannot hide it, I will get over it. There is very few times though that anything really hurts me. I think one of the key things that we key off of in regard to being hurt is your approval of us. If we think or feel like we are in good standing with you and will remain that way there is very little you can say or do to hurt us. I wont fish for acceptance, for me thats something that has built over time and is based on both past and future.

 

[Halla74]

okay, so I work with an older ESTP man and am as close to friends as an ENFP will be able to get to an ESTP given the massive diffs.

I noticed trends due to out tert Fe/Te differences.

Hi Happy Puppy!

I love the rainbow vomit in your avi.

I've copied your original statements and will edit them (if needed) so they apply to my implementation of ESTP(7w8).

1. He never says mean things to people he cares for.

I actually will playfully insult locker room style those I care for.
If I insult you and pick on you, I really like you.

1a. I never say mean things to people I love, specifically my family members.
1b. My friends, acquaintance, and those I care for I will playfully insult locker room style.

2. When under stress he becomes calm
When I am under stress I become agitated.

2. When under stress I am at my calmest. When other people are freaking out because of stress, I am poised to take opportunistic action. I am comfortable on the brink of disasters, as I can peacefully triage them, think through them, and resolve them.

Examples for me include tactical vehicular manuevering to avoid collisions, solving unexpected workflow problems, and even personal confrontations, whether verbal or physical. I've always had nerves of steel, I know no other way to be.

P.S. When I am under stress bored I become agitated.

3. When angry, frustrated or irritated he will withdraw

When I am angry, frustrated or irritated I will be very direct and even confrontational.

3. When angry, frustrated or irritated I will behave as follows:

Personal matters:
Very direct and confrontational if needed.

Professional matters:
Angry, frustrated, or irritated with a superior or client:
Communicate, negotiate, withdraw only if needed.

Angry, frustrated, or irritated with a peer or colleague:
Communicate, negotiate, or open uop a can of whoop-ass if needed.

P.S. Revenge is a whole different matter entirely...

4. So my observation: When I am hurt I will withdraw.

Interesting.

When I am hurt (which is very, very rare) I'll either stop the conversation or whatever is going on right there and ask for clarification, as sometimes people say things other than what they mean, and also sometimes I hear things differently than others intended.

If the words do turn out to be hurtful I will state what my issue is, allow the other party to respond, and if their response is not sufficient to warrant their company worth my presence I will then excuse myself, but I am not withdrawing; I let them know I was offended and told them what I thought of it and excused myself.

There's only one or two conversations I can recall where someone said something to me that was quite hurtful and I lost my cool, got in their face and told them: "Shut your fucking mouth! DO NOT speak to me that way EVER again. Now LEAVE."

Also, there's a pre-qualifier that only people you love can hurt you to an ESTP from what I can tell. Friends, neighbors, and coworkers can irritate us or piss us off but not hurt us.

Does he mistake this for his angry, frustrated withdraw in point 3? Thus he thinks I am mad when I am really hurt?

My guess is "No" because he does not asssume you react as he does, and does not expect your physical responses in one situation to be representative of another situation if the two are indeed different. Also, he expects you to be direct and professional in dealing with him, just a hunch.

Also what would the ESTP response to being hurt be? Would you be direct about your hurt feelings?

I think I answered this above, if not let me know...

thanks!

You're welcome!

-Halla

 

[Poki]

Also, there's a pre-qualifier that only people you love can hurt you to an ESTP from what I can tell. Friends, neighbors, and coworkers can irritate us or piss us off but not hurt us.

Have had this happen IRL. 2 people say almost the exact same thing. One person was just someone I knew, the other my wife. What that person said didnt even phase me, when my wife said it it hurt deeply.

 

[Halla74]

Have had this happen IRL. 2 people say almost the exact same thing. One person was just someone I knew, the other my wife. What that person said didnt even phase me, when my wife said it it hurt deeply.

BINGO. That's it.

 

[sculpting]

I asked my estp friend this and is answer was "yes, when my feelings get hurt I am not shy about saying so"-the utterly opposite of my response.

My entp and I just had lunch and had endless entertainment making fun of each other and these exact same communication differences across the Fi/Fe Ti/Te divide. It turns out part of her fun/torment in interacting with Te and Fi users is that we are bizarre people puzzles. Why would would do the insane things we do????

Her end conclusion is that we are all crazy and emo-even her ISTJ husband.

Anyways I like it when these people puzzles work out symmetric like this-it makes the puzzle seem complete and solved and explains so much.