[ISTP] ISTP or ADD?

[McRumi]

Ah...the fairy tale land of the NFs.

 

[McRumi]

Good point, and am pretty sure you wouldn't want for someone newly or incorrectly "diagnosed" to take the risk of abruptly stopping.

No. but they should stop as quickly as possible. Misdiagnosis is misdiagnosis. All the drama queen NFs focus on are mis-diagnosed cases...and assume that means that ADD does not exist. That's even more dangerous. The Sarah Palin's of medicine. Ignore reality. Cling to faulty intuition regardless of the facts.

 

[McRumi]

Stopping Adderall for any length of time is an utter BITCH!! I'm living proof!! If you can manage your ADHD or ADD symptoms without it then do so!! Keep away from at all costs!! Totally wicked withdrawals.

After doing some googling it does seem that Adderall can be a nasty dug. It is a different type of drug than Ritalin.

I don't know why folks put up with things like elevated blood pressure, loss of appetite etc. To me those are all signs that something is still out of whack. Obviously, there are lots of mis-diagoses.

As I said earlier I have been taking 80 mg of Ritalin a day for 15 years..and have had no negative side effects at all. And i have lovely low blood pressure. Can go off it at any time and no withdrawal problems at all.

ADD is real. Ritalin works. Correct diagnosis is key.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Nonsense. More quackery.

Ritalin Oral : Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Pictures, Warnings & Dosing - WebMD:

WARNING: Methylphenidate should be given cautiously to emotionally unstable patients such as those with a history of alcohol or drug abuse. These patients may be more likely to unnecessarily increase their doses or take this medication too often. Long-term overuse of this medication may lead to reduced drug effect, drug dependence, and abnormal behavior. Take this medication only by mouth. Serious mental/mood changes (e.g., psychosis) may occur, especially if this drug is abused. If methylphenidate must be stopped, it should be stopped gradually over time. Follow your doctor's instructions on how to gradually lower the dose. In some patients, long-term monitoring may be required after the medication is stopped.

METHYLPHENIDATE - ORAL (Ritalin) side effects, medical uses, and drug interactions.

This medication may cause dependence, especially if it has been used regularly for an extended period of time, or if it has been used in high doses. In such cases, if you suddenly stop this drug, withdrawal reactions may occur. Such reactions can include severe depression and chronic overactivity. Report to your doctor immediately any such reactions. When stopping extended, regular treatment with this drug, gradually reducing the dosage as directed will help prevent withdrawal reactions.

 

[McRumi]

Not true for ADD folks...only true for those not having ADD. Big difference.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Anyone diagnosed as having ADD or ADHD presumably has the illness and are treated as such. The warning is for all people taking the medication who have been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. It is especially for those who take high doses or who have taken the medication for a long time, and for those who overuse their own meds because they have developed a tolerance to the medication over time.

With no definitive psychological or medical marker for ADD or ADHD in the first place, how do you conclude whether or not a person has or hasn't been diagnosed "properly"?

 

[McRumi]

You're clueless. And you have never taken Ritalin. I have for 15 years. I know you NFs like to ignore reality for your grand schemes, but my 15 year reality trumps your googled knowledge base.

You don't see the ADD trees for the pharmaceutical forest.

 

[Snuggletron]

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Why am I unloading my frustration on stupid morons? It's like cruelty to animals. You don't kick a dog because it poops on your carpet. You lock it in the backyard.

 

[McRumi]

Truth hurts, eh?

 

[Charmed Justice]

You're clueless. And you have never taken Ritalin. I have for 15 years. I know you NFs like to ignore reality for your grand schemes, but my 15 year reality trumps your googled knowledge base.

You don't see the ADD trees for the pharmaceutical forest.

I've already told you what my background is regarding this issue, you can ignore it if you wish. You've got little credibility with so few post, and the only thing you've given is your own personal experience, to which other people have given their's as well; some, contradicting your own.

Again, I'm glad it's all been great for you, but that's not the case with many people. In fact, the NIMH just released a study recently that connected a 7x increase in sudden death amongst young people who have been professionally diagnosed with ADD or ADHD and take Ritalin. The increase was noted in children who do not have any known underlying health condition.

I'm interested in knowing what you think the intent behind the "NF grande scheme" to stop the gross over and misdiagnosis, plus medicating, of people(esp. young people with "mental disorders" and "chemical imbalances") is?

 

[Amargith]

Rumi, you kinda remind me of Jag..*ponders*

 

[McRumi]

You've already stated that you don't care whether ADD exists or not. That disqualifies you as someone who has an objective viewpoint. Your mind is closed. You can read as many reports as you want, but because you have no experience, and have a closed mind, your opinion is of little value. You have aroused an ISTP Protector for those with ADD. I will not relent. I have a lived truth to support me. You have mere theories, most of which you have only a dim understanding of.

I am a living proof against your many false claims.

I will not relent.

 

[McRumi]

Who is Jag? You mean the TV show?

 

[countrygirl]

Check the members list

 

[McRumi]

Oh. LOL. No. I'm just me. Too old and lazy to play those kind of childish cyber games.

 

[Charmed Justice]

You've already stated that you don't care whether ADD exists or not. That disqualifies you as someone who has an objective viewpoint. Your mind is closed. You can read as many reports as you want, but because you have no experience, and have a closed mind, your opinion is of little value. You have aroused an ISTP Protector for those with ADD. I will not relent. I have a lived truth to support me. You have mere theories, most of which you have only a dim understanding of.

I am a living proof against your many false claims.

I will not relent.

I specifically said that the existence or not of ADD and ADHD is a non-issue for me. It is a condition which is overlydiagnosed, so there is no need to promote its existence. My issue, as I stated earlier, is with the knee-jerk desire to diagnose people as having either ADHD or ADD, and then medicating those people(particularly young children who can suffer severe effects from the medications), for what typically amounts to making them easier to deal with for the adults in their lives.

My mind is indeed closed to more promotion of ADD and ADHD, plus medicating, without doing extraordinarily thorough examinations and rooting out of other potential causes for the behaviors that people exhibit. As I said, every single child I have worked with who has been diagnosed professionally with ADD or ADHD, and has had the opportunity to have someone look at their case and handle it thoroughly, eventually rooting out the cause of the problem behavior, has eventually lost their need to take medications. They are living proof to me.

If there is a way, as many professional psychiatrist, psychologist and even neuroscientist believe, to eliminate the combination of behavioral problems that we use to professionally diagnosis ADD and ADHD-without medication, wouldn't you prefer it? The diagnosis of ADD and ADHD are almost always made on the basis of symptomatic behaviors. If the behaviors are eliminated, then the person is essentially "cured".

A person who is struggling behaviorally and cognitively has a right to assistance; the least harmful and most effective help available.

I have offered links to reputable articles on almost every "claim" I've made. You're arguing against David Keirsey, who has spent decades working with who knows how many people with a concentration on temperament, the blackbox warning on Ritalin, a school which claims to have eliminated almost all behavioral problems after implementing a healthy meal plan,etc...Seriously...

 

[McRumi]

There is much I do agree with you on.

But when you make statements about long-term effects, dependencies, etc, you are plain wrong. As I have stated ad nauseum, I have taken 80 mg of Ritalin daily for 15 years. The dosage has never changed and the effect is always the same. I can stop taking it for months at a time with no side effects whatsoever. NONE. No depression, no cramps, no insomnia, nothing except for one thing: the lack of controlling my focus. Ritalin works in the ADD brain WAY different than in the non-ADD brain. Nor am I some superman exempt for these supposed long-term effects.

As for Keirsey, he is an arrogant ass and I hope there is a place for him in hell for the damage he is doing to kids who really do have the neurobiological condition ADD / ADHD. Just as I hope there is a place in hell for those who mis-diagnose and mis-treat kids who are not ADD/ADHD.

I am a 50--year old man living a very successful and fufilling life after having discovered ADD and Ritalin in my 30s. Prior to that my life was a living hell...and I tried suicide at age 14. That would not have happened if I had been diagnosed and properly medicated earlier. Nothing you say or any narcissistic doctor can say will ever change the facts of my life.

Your experiences are of mis-diagnosed children. Go to a ADD conference and spend time with those who have been correctly diagnosed and given correct medicine and whose lives have gone from black to white...ask them about the lack of side-effects and the ease of stopping meds at any time......THEN we can talk.

 

[Andy]

uh, noticed a topic developing in another thread and well here we go.

I had a school teacher that worked part-time on my team, tell me she thought that I had ADD...

Just because I could focus on something so intently, I wouldn't hear a word that she said. Which led to my reading about ADD of the Inattentive type?

This was about seven years ago, and I read all kinds of crap.

Sometimes I'd think how could I be ADD when my ISTP best friend is exactly like me?

So what!?! I used to not be able to find my keys, or he'd walk out of a store and leave his wallet behind. Right now I always know where my keys are. They're in a basket I place next to the door, which is exactly where I drop and retrieve them from each and every day.

So guess I'm asking? Is it really ADD or is it simply ISTP?

Or is it diet? The modern lifestyle vs. just be?

****Disclaimer

I would encourage anyone thinking about stopping ADD/ADHD medication to consult with their clinician to establish an appropriate schedule. Under no circumstances stop taking any psychoactive medication without consultation.

I do much of this myself. I think its more to do with an introverted prime function than being specifically an ISTP.

 

[McRumi]

If you put your keys in the same spot every day and always know where your keys are, I can tell you almost without hesitation that you do not have ADD. On the other hand, losing your keys every day is not in itself proof of ADD. ADD is an entire constellation of life long behaviors and is treatable by medicine which increases dopamine in the brain through reuptake inhibition of the monoamine transporters..as well as blocking other transporters (aka, brain noise).

It is brain chemistry. Not diet, not family dynamics, not personality disorder. Just chemistry.