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[ISTP] ISTP or ADD?

B

brainheart

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I was diagnosed with ADD, inattentive, as well and did the adderall thing as well and it made me such a boring person. All I wanted to do was organize. It's like all I was anymore was Te. Dull dull dull. Not to mention my face would become bright red as the medication wore off and I couldn't sleep. Also, you feel kick-ass awesome when it starts to take effect and then it kind of goes down hill. Then there's the fact that you get used to the dose pretty quickly and it stops working so you want to raise it, etc. Next thing you know, you're feeling you're totally dependent on a drug, and it doesn't feel like a prescription thing, more like cocaine. Although maybe for people with full-on ADD it's different. But it did make me feel calmer when it kicked in; it's just when it wore off I was the snappiest bitch ever.

How I am being part of the ISFP (or SP.. or P) personality makes a lot more sense to me.

I have friends who teach kids with behavioral problems, many who have ADD, and they say you can totally tell the difference between the kids who really have ADD and those who supposedly do. They say it's night and day, that the kids with full-blown ADD can have a coffee and they are instantly... chill, and otherwise, they are completely unmanageable.

That's what makes me think inattentive type ADD is just a personality thing, not a disorder. Because yeah, I can focus on what I'm interested in, I just don't like to pay attention to stuff that I think is worthless or stupid. (Not exclusively a guy thing. I am well-known for my selective hearing. It drives my husband nuts.)
 
B

brainheart

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when i took adderall and speed in college for studying they did not do wonders for me. they improved my focus a lot, but i ended up always latching on to the first idea and obsessing over it, running it into the ground. i couldn't get off of that first idea, i just kept beating it to death until i didn't even know what i was thinking about anymore.

+1 :yes:
 

sLiPpY

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Wait... if you can focus on something intently, isn't that basically the opposite of ADD? Or maybe I am misunderstanding ADD.

That's a good observation... I wonder how many teachers out there are making casual diagnosis? Or suggesting parents take their kids to doctors for pills?
 

Charmed Justice

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uh, noticed a topic developing in another thread and well here we go.

I had a school teacher that worked part-time on my team, tell me she thought that I had ADD...

Just because I could focus on something so intently, I wouldn't hear a word that she said. Which led to my reading about ADD of the Inattentive type?

This was about seven years ago, and I read all kinds of crap.

Sometimes I'd think how could I be ADD when my ISTP best friend is exactly like me?

So what!?! I used to not be able to find my keys, or he'd walk out of a store and leave his wallet behind. Right now I always know where my keys are. They're in a basket I place next to the door, which is exactly where I drop and retrieve them from each and every day.

So guess I'm asking? Is it really ADD or is it simply ISTP?

Or is it diet? The modern lifestyle vs. just be?
Keirsey said that ISTPs are commonly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, which he thought was a complete fraud.


I think I have some Add but I don't take anything...I find it hard to concentrate when someone is explaining pointless crap to me... my Ti would just be wondering about other stuff.
Heh, I think that would make you normal.;)

That's a good observation... I wonder how many teachers out there are making casual diagnosis? Or suggesting parents take their kids to doctors for pills?
Many teacher's make casual diagnosis because the child's attention does not respond to her voice, her interest, or the sound of an alarm bell. I've worked with children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and ODD on a volunteer basis for a number of years. I can't begin to tell you the crazy stuff I have seen in this regard.
 

countrygirl

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That's a good observation... I wonder how many teachers out there are making casual diagnosis? Or suggesting parents take their kids to doctors for pills?

Our school board for our region has a specialist if parents have been advised by teachers that their child might be ADD/ADHD.

I wonder if some teachers don't have the time or resourses to deal with difficult children. Also I think some parents need to learn some parenting skills for their difficult child.
 

McRumi

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Wait... if you can focus on something intently, isn't that basically the opposite of ADD? Or maybe I am misunderstanding ADD.

Yes, you are misunderstanding.

Those with AD(H)D alternate between distraction and hyperfocus. They seek out stimulation to artificially create the chemistry (adrenalin rush) they naturally lack...and this produces the hyperfocus...at all other times, the chemistry is absent and it's just one distraction after another.

Ritalin et al also creates the artificial chemistry to allow one to better control the ability to focus...never cures it or helps you to do what you really don't want to do, but is very effective in helping your brain push aside distractions when you want it to. This something the person with ADD cannot do naturally. Impossible.
 

Bamboo

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Keirsey said that ISTPs are commonly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD, which he thought was a complete fraud.

I read that in the book Please Understand Me. That book is pretty darn old, so I don't know what definition of ADD he was using, because I think it has changed a bit over time to be more specific.

Maybe I'm just skeptical because I really disliked that ISTP description.
 

Charmed Justice

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I read that in the book Please Understand Me. That book is pretty darn old, so I don't know what definition of ADD he was using, because I think it has changed a bit over time to be more specific.

Maybe I'm just skeptical because I really disliked that ISTP description.
The original Please Understand Me was published in 1978, and II(the updated version), was done in the late 90's. There was an update to the DSM-IV in 2000, but criteria has not that changed much since the 70's.

The Born to Explore website is about as good as it gets(imo), in dealing thoughtfully with ADD and ADHD behaviors in adults and children. Here's a link to their site: Multiple Causes of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD/ADHD) They take a lot of type theory into serious consideration.

I have never once worked with a child diagnosed as ADD or ADHD who needed medication after the problem was rooted out dealt with. I'm a real skeptic as a result.
 

McRumi

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I was diagnosed with ADD, inattentive, as well and did the adderall thing as well and it made me such a boring person. All I wanted to do was organize. It's like all I was anymore was Te. Dull dull dull. Not to mention my face would become bright red as the medication wore off and I couldn't sleep. Also, you feel kick-ass awesome when it starts to take effect and then it kind of goes down hill. Then there's the fact that you get used to the dose pretty quickly and it stops working so you want to raise it, etc. Next thing you know, you're feeling you're totally dependent on a drug, and it doesn't feel like a prescription thing, more like cocaine. Although maybe for people with full-on ADD it's different.


Yes. COMPLETELY different.

The brain of person with ADD never shuts up...CONSTANT chatter in there...those without ADD have no idea what that is like.

When I took my first Ritalin pill, the chatter stopped. It was amazing...I could actually focus on what was in front of me without distractions.

Another thing about those of us with ADD ..we never become addicted to or dependent upon our medication...in fact, we often forget to take it...and only remember when we find ourselves in another circle of distraction.

ADD is real. I live it every day.
 

McRumi

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I have never once worked with a child diagnosed as ADD or ADHD who needed medication after the problem was rooted out dealt with. I'm a real skeptic as a result.


Then you have never worked with a child who has ADD. It's a chemical issue, not a behavioral or moral issue. Denying ADD is like denying the existence of schizophrenia. Utter nonsense. Literally: no sense. At all. None.
 

Snuggletron

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Yes. COMPLETELY different.

The brain of person with ADD never shuts up...CONSTANT chatter in there...those without ADD have no idea what that is like.

When I took my first Ritalin pill, the chatter stopped. It was amazing...I could actually focus on what was in front of me without distractions.

I understand what you're saying, but how do you know other people don't experience this? I'm glad the medication works for you, but what about the people it doesn't help? I'm still unsure if people who meet the criteria for being ADD who take the meds which don't work for them truly have ADD or if it's just their mental cognition and personality. This is where whether I buy it all or not becomes fuzzy. I think the way the structure of our schools and jobs work just doesn't click for certain people, but maybe they can function in a different kind of environment just fine. I get a bad vibe when people have to take medication just to fit in and function 'properly' in society.
 

NewEra

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Yes, you are misunderstanding.

Those with AD(H)D alternate between distraction and hyperfocus. They seek out stimulation to artificially create the chemistry (adrenalin rush) they naturally lack...and this produces the hyperfocus...at all other times, the chemistry is absent and it's just one distraction after another.

Ritalin et al also creates the artificial chemistry to allow one to better control the ability to focus...never cures it or helps you to do what you really don't want to do, but is very effective in helping your brain push aside distractions when you want it to. This something the person with ADD cannot do naturally. Impossible.

Interesting, didn't know that.
 

Charmed Justice

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Then you have never worked with a child who has ADD. It's a chemical issue, not a behavioral or moral issue. Denying ADD is like denying the existence of schizophrenia. Utter nonsense. Literally: no sense. At all. None.
I have worked closely with a number of children who have been diagnosed with ADD and ADHD, and their family's. I've also worked with psychologist and psychiastrist who have a diversity of viewpoints on both.

The children I worked with were diagnosed by psychiatrist, usually at the recommendation of their parents or teachers. As far as everyone was concerned, every last child had ADD or ADHD, and was treated and medicated accordingly. I actually took temporary custody of one child who was diagnosed as ADD/ADHD/and ODD before the age of 5. He was on a number of different psychotropics before we were able to get down to the bottom it all. My interest lies in my personal experience with many children after him, and their family's.

In any case, whether or not ADD or ADHD exist is not the issue, to me. The issue is the often knee-jerk desire to get the diagnosis of one of the two disorders when an adult or child present with the symptomatic behaviors. All too often, there is way more to it.

There are a number of psychologist and neuroscientist who don't believe that ADD or ADHD exist in the way that we typically understand them to, and others who are skeptical of the common diagnosis altogether. In any case, I'm glad that you've found a way that works for you.

Ritalin makes anyone focus, so the fact that the drug has this impact says nothing for whether or not the person has a bonfide case of ADHD or ADD.
 

McRumi

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And the earth is the center of the universe.
 

McRumi

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Ritalin makes anyone focus, so the fact that the drug has this impact says nothing for whether or not the person has a bonfide case of ADHD or ADD.

This is an ignorant, unscientific and demonstrably false statement and reveals that you know nothing about ADD and have no acquaintance with the science of brain chemistry. Such empty chatter is not surprising for an ENFP type.

I pity any child in your supposed care.
 

Charmed Justice

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This is an ignorant, unscientific and demonstrably false statement and reveals that you no nothing about ADD and have no acquaintance with the science of brain chemistry. Such empty chatter is not surprising for an ENFP type.

I pity any child in your supposed care.
Under 100 post, and already kicking and screaming.:rolli:

http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/factline/ritalin.pdf:
When Ritalin is taken by an individual without ADD/ADHD, it creates a stimulant-like effect by increasing focus and attentiveness, making this an attractive drug to abuse amongst teenagers.

Hoover Institution - Policy Review - Why Ritalin Rules:
Just as, contrary to folklore, the adult and child physiologies respond in the same way to such drugs, so too do the physiologies of all people, regardless of whether they are diagnosed with add or hyperactivity. As Diller puts it, in a point echoed by many other sources, methylphenidate "potentially improves the performance of anyone — child or not, add-diagnosed or not." Writing in the Public Interest last year, psychologist Ken Livingston provided a similar summary of the research, citing "studies conducted during the mid seventies to early eighties by Judith Rapaport of the National Institute of Mental Health" which "clearly showed that stimulant drugs improve the performance of most people, regardless of whether they have a diagnosis of adhd, on tasks requiring good attention." ("Indeed," he comments further in an obvious comparison, "this probably explains the high levels of ‘self-medicating’ around the world" in the form of "stimulants like caffeine and nicotine.")

And I'm done discussing this with you unless you've got some facts supporting your arguments. I'm getting bored.
 

sLiPpY

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Then you have never worked with a child who has ADD. It's a chemical issue, not a behavioral or moral issue. Denying ADD is like denying the existence of schizophrenia. Utter nonsense. Literally: no sense. At all. None.

Yes, for some I think it's a physical issue, no different than an individual with diabetes or heart disease. Effectively the body isn't able to provide the right mix of one or the other chemicals needed for I'll say "average" functioning.

For others it's not a physical issue, it's that by inappropriate diet...lack of rest and/or exercise that humans need. The conditions simply aren't there to successfully manufacture the chemicals needed for "average" brain function in balance.

In those cases a human being would exhibit symptoms of ADD without having a physical cause.

Least that's a best guess
 

sLiPpY

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ah and EnFpFer.... I'm glad there's someone working as an advocate that questions the "system."

The system profits from well, we all know and understand. In America we have a pill for everything, we'll sell you poison just so long as the suppliers can maintain plausible deniability...Michael Jackson comes to mind.
 

McRumi

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McRumi

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ah and EnFpFer.... I'm glad there's someone working as an advocate that questions the "system."

The system profits from well, we all know and understand. In America we have a pill for everything, we'll sell you poison just so long as the suppliers can maintain plausible deniability...Michael Jackson comes to mind.

You can't question the system if you have no interest in whether or not a neurobiologic abnormality of the brain actually exists. Just pretending or assuming that it does not leads to nothing of actual value. Just lots of drama. No wonder that the two leading opponents of ADD are from the Church of Scientology and advocate child sex.

Are kids misdiagnosed and over-drugged? Hell yes. That in no way invalidates a proven neurobiologic abnormality. Just that there are a lot of ignorant parents, lazy doctors and greedy pill-pushers.

Doesn't affect the reality of ADD at all.

What a disservice to those kids who truly do suffer from thia chemical imbalance!

Ptooey!
 
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