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[ISTP] ISTPs and "talking"

toast

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So, I'm in a conflicting relationship... (I'm ENFJ female & he's ISTP male).
Things go up & down, in a kind of roller coaster, but they have gotten much better (happier, peaceful, satisfying, secure) as the relationship has progressed.

Of course, I am the vocal one. I am the one with "issues" about how we bump heads. He, being pretty carefree & apart from his emotions, seems to just sail through the relationship, like he would be perfectly fine with keeping our troubles under the surface & very capable of never giving them a second thought. (I used to think this made him shallow, selfish or not engaged / in love with me... I am very happy to say I know better now.)

Trouble is, I am the opposite. I can't "sit on" anything for very long. I need to talk or the conflict becomes consuming & I have a very serious fight or flight thing. Our conflicts don't really have immediate resolutions. The ones we have worked out only got that way after a long time of trying different things & becoming more confident with each other. In his eyes, 'why talk about it if we can't fix it?'... makes perfect sense. But then again, to me I don't think we'd ever resolve anything if we hadn't talked about it even though its been difficult for both of us to do just that (It is very hard for talk as well because I never want a conflict to become worse, and that's always a risk).

I think we are both right, but to extremes. If we could just "go with the flow", things would smooth out... If we could be open to the point of understanding each other, things would work well too. That isn't going to happen in either direction. If we try either one, one of us is bound to be miserable. If we moderate & compromise, then things get done.

And while I understand that I can feel like bringing up issues way too much, and I am really, really working on that, I still need a better method of talking with him when it does happen. We've been doing rather well & things have been really good lately. I just thought I'd ask for some advice from ISTPs and those who've been close to them. Seems like a good idea to think about this when I'm happy and levelheaded.

Anyone been in a relationship with an ENFJ or an ISTP who has any advice on this (or similar experience)? poki, aren't you with an ENFJ? Did she feel accusative and judgmental when she confronted you about problems? I know that he feels like I am attacking him when I try to talk to him. It is almost inevitable, because it is easy for him to see "our" issues as "my" issues if he is completely able to disregard them. And since we can't immediately resolve anything, it seems like I'm just talking to make him feel bad.

Basically all I'm trying to get out of "talking" is some confirmation that he is aware of what I'm feeling and reassurance from him that he still feels like everything will work out. (Because he can put troubles on the back burner with ease, whereas I am constantly struggling with them. I just want to know he hasn't forgotten that so I can have faith that we'll work it out.) There has to be some way to make it possible for him to hear & understand me without making him feel a.) hopeless because he can't 'fix" everything right away, and b.) offended & defensive because I am confronting him with something I know can't be fixed right away.

Thanks for any response.
 

LEGERdeMAIN

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I was with an entj for five years. It was fine until she started attempting to "change" me. I never had a problem talking about things, but it's possible to talk problems to death and that's exactly what she did. I did make a few concessions to keep her happy but there was always something else. Eventually I left her so that I could have some peace and quiet. Leave him alone about the insignificant things. She sounded like an overbearing mother, which she now is, thanks to an inf.

What specifically does he refer to as "your" issues?
 
A

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What's to fix?

Things go up & down, in a kind of roller coaster, but they have gotten much better (happier, peaceful, satisfying, secure) as the relationship has progressed.

Basically all I'm trying to get out of "talking" is some confirmation that he is aware of what I'm feeling and reassurance from him that he still feels like everything will work out. (Because he can put troubles on the back burner with ease, whereas I am constantly struggling with them. I just want to know he hasn't forgotten that so I can have faith that we'll work it out.) There has to be some way to make it possible for him to hear & understand me without making him feel a.) hopeless because he can't 'fix" everything right away, and b.) offended & defensive because I am confronting him with something I know can't be fixed right away.


Wow! That all sounds like a living hell!!! :shock:

I mean this in the nicest possible way... In your original post (above), you come across as hyper and a tad on the scary controlling side. Perhaps you are just upset and that's why?

...there's just no need for all this verbal nilly willyness! :unsure:


Why do you need reassurance and what are you expecting him to fix again?? It seems logical to me that if he's still with you, despite all of your "talking", then he's aware of what you're feeling and perhaps his presence means he's already worked it out that "everything will work out" between the two of you! Some things go without saying. If you continue on this nilly willy demanding way, he'll probably be planning his escape, so he can relish in peace and quiet without the leash.

My best advice is to relax. If you find that task impossible around him, then there are plenty of cuties in the sea; go meet your match!
 

mcmartinez84

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I was long distance with an ENFJ male for a year (I'm female), so I really don't have a lot to offer except my view based on what you wrote.

Definitely keep working on what you've been doing. There are a lot of little things that just aren't an issue and become fairly irrelevant to discuss, imo. One way to present it is just saying that it's something you want to talk about and explain why it's a problem, make sure he understands *WHY* it bothers you. That's how I work through everything. Why? Why? Why? And why again? Once you convey that, he may still think it's pointless, but he'll know that *you* care and that you have reasons to care. If he cares about you, he'll hopefully care to work with you a little.

I have an ESFP friend who makes a big deal of stuff and I'm just like "....uh....that's stupid" - but I don't tell her that, lol. I'd crush her feelings. I try to show her how I think of the situation and present a solution I'd use if I were in her shoes. After I think she should understand my stance on it, her talking about it becomes whining and it's annoying. I'm thinking "Srsly, I told you how to solve it, shush, plz!"

And that's my 2 cents...(for now :D )
 

sLiPpY

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ah, toast...

Reading through is there mutual agreement there is a conflict that needs to be talked through? Or is it that you feel conflicted and have changes that you want for the other party to make?

:huh:
 

rhinosaur

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I was in a relationship with an ENFJ for about a year or two, but I don't really think my experience is particularly relevant to your situation. It was constant drama.

My advice is: if something bothers you, bring it up immediately. Make your opinion known, and then drop it -- don't wait for them to change their mind, or to even answer. If your ISTP doesn't want to talk about it, don't. If they respect your opinion on the matter, you will see their behavior change. Otherwise, let it be.
 

sLiPpY

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yeh, ENFJ's and ISTP's are like trying to mix fire with water.

Always felt like things were going flow and smooth, then out of the blue "drama" and crap she wanted to talk about I couldn't identify with and/or "see."

Which has everything to do with type difference and the way one naturally see's and experiences the world.

So one day after a few months I said look, I think you're a terrific person and will make someone very happy...but this isn't working for me.
 

Poki

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um, with me and an ENFJ problems were always known, it was more of a matter of ok, do we push it to explosion or just let it go unresolved. We both push each others buttons and we both become defensive going back and forth. It all seems to be based on the fact that what comes natural and easy to me she struggle with and vice versa, which puts each other in a defensive mode.

With us its not a matter of not talking about it, but that no matter how much we dig into it, it comes out to the fact that one of us tried using our weaker function in a way we are not good at and failed miserably. We go in circles.

Look at the LSI and ENFP arguments on here. Thats an example of a conflicting relationship communication. Conflicting relationships is based on dynamics between 2 people.

We tend not to be able to see because of the dramatic difference in inferior vs dominant and that seems to be the struggle we fight and the reasons we cant "see" what each other is saying.
 

Amargith

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Seems to me that if you guys trust one another, you could do the 'divide and conquer' tactic. Aka, if you know what your strenghts are and you recognize your weaknesses as her strengths and vice versa (and you respect each others strenghts and realize the other person's not this adept at it, and therefore are patient with them), you can rely on each other to deal with everything the world throws at you. Standing as a team against the world though is essential to survive a relationship, imo. And I do admit this is easier said than done.
 
A

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We tend not to be able to see because of the dramatic difference in inferior vs dominant and that seems to be the struggle we fight and the reasons we cant "see" what each other is saying.

...I don't totally agree with you poki. We are all speaking English aren't we? It's not complicated to "see" what an ISTP is saying. I do not think this is a mis-communication issue (verbal or otherwise), I think it has more to do with what mcmartinez84 and sLiPpY seem to be saying, which if I interpreted them accurately, then I agree with them. In summary, the OP is "making a big deal" out of stuff, rather than "going with the flow" of things... AND the OP's continual badgering and confrontation is coming across as "annoying" and "whining", thus creating unnecessary "drama".

... perhaps I misunderstood what you and the OP are saying? lol :tongue: ...NOT!, I know I'm right! ;) This isn't rocket science. I don't care what any textbook says... I's & E's and P's & J's don't mix too well over the long run; that's my experience... for some reason, they (E+J) won't let us get too comfortable to relax long enough to think.
 

sLiPpY

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perfectgirl! :wubbie:
 

Poki

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Seems to me that if you guys trust one another, you could do the 'divide and conquer' tactic. Aka, if you know what your strenghts are and you recognize your weaknesses as her strengths and vice versa (and you respect each others strenghts and realize the other person's not this adept at it, and therefore are patient with them), you can rely on each other to deal with everything the world throws at you. Standing as a team against the world though is essential to survive a relationship, imo. And I do admit this is easier said than done.

Our real problems dont revolve around trust though. It revolves around her complaining and my lack of complaining. Both actions can cause huge problems.

Alot of my problems arise because my ENFJ likes to find blame, I like to find a solution. So when a problem arises with her things go south because of blame and I either struggle to get past the blame and to the solution or I fight the blame and things go south really fast. But either way everything still starts out, its your fault. Thats how my morning started. I got snapped at and blamed for something after getting past the complaining and blaming, I tried to direct her where to look and she found it. I understand the stress, I can see why she is stressed, but she focused the stress directly at me by blaming me for the problem when the problem was because I had tried to help her and didnt put something back in the exact same spot and she couldnt find it. A simple, "im stressed, I cant find XYZ, what did you do with it" would have garnered a much better response.

Instead of just calling me, while stressed out and saying I cant find XYZ, what did you do with it, it came across as attacking because she focused solely on how its my fault and how much problems its causing her.

So I do feel attacked, but not exactly in the way you mention.

The way that I expect it to be handled is to call me stressed ask me where it is and then work to fix the problem which would be working together to get me to put things back where I grabbed them. To me this is getting to the root of a problem not the the root of a situation.
 

Amargith

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I wholeheartedly agree with that, Poki. Is it the stress that makes her then 'abuse' Fe instead of use it properly? Perhaps that's a question for Fe-doms out there to answer.

It's a good example though. You use Se to find stuff and spot things more easily, where as she does not. However, instead of respecting the fact that you help her out, she seems more frustrated that she cannot do it alone, resulting in redirected aggression. Right?
 

Zoom

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...I don't totally agree with you poki. We are all speaking English aren't we? It's not complicated to "see" what an ISTP is saying. I do not think this is a mis-communication issue (verbal or otherwise), I think it has more to do with what mcmartinez84 and sLiPpY seem to be saying, which if I interpreted them accurately, then I agree with them. In summary, the OP is "making a big deal" out of stuff, rather than "going with the flow" of things... AND the OP's continual badgering and confrontation is coming across as "annoying" and "whining", thus creating unnecessary "drama".

Yes, we are, but dismissing the OP's concerns is part of what started their relationship difficulties in the first place. Looking for reassurance that one is heard and understood is not unreasonable, nor is wanting one's problems to be considered valid.

This drama-seeking, as you put it, is not the best way to go about it - but neither is dismissing someone's expression of their feelings as "annoying" and "whining", instead of assisting them figure out a better way to do it.

A meeting point somewhere near the halfway mark really should be the focus here, not speaking on how one is better than the other - going with the flow or openly expressing and discussing everything.
 

proteanmix

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I think the OP is interesting because of this whole indirect/direct communication connundrum that I always hear people talking about.

I sympathesize with toast because I have similar problems with my ISTP sister. I suppose it's a matter of perception; someone views it as nagging and another person views it as being proactive.

If one person doesn't see there is a problem and another sees a problem then of course there will be miscommunications.

I also know with my ISTP sister, she's not a very forward-thinking person and doesn't do much forecasting or preventative measures. That's the downside of a "take things as they come" type of person. If you have a person who sees prevention of a possible problem as a more effective strategy to even needing to solve the problem in the first place then yes there will be friction. Using myself as an example, I'd rather prevent a easily preventable problem (if I view it as preventable) than go into problem-solving mode. I find needing to fix something that didn't need to break as creating needless drama and headache.

But then again, I'm a very vigilant person.
 

sLiPpY

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Yes, we are, but dismissing the OP's concerns is part of what started their relationship difficulties in the first place. Looking for reassurance that one is heard and understood is not unreasonable, nor is wanting one's problems to be considered valid.

This drama-seeking, as you put it, is not the best way to go about it - but neither is dismissing someone's expression of their feelings as "annoying" and "whining", instead of assisting them figure out a better way to do it.

A meeting point somewhere near the halfway mark really should be the focus here, not speaking on how one is better than the other - going with the flow or openly expressing and discussing everything.

I don't think the intent was to dismiss the concern, more so to point out the reality that the conflict is due to the inherent nature of trying to make a relationship work with a type that is the "LEAST" compatible with one's own.
 

McRumi

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I am a male ISTP and became friends a with an ENFJ female. Essentially, she talked non-stop and my eyes were permanently glazed over. In my experience ENFJs have a physical need to talk as much as ISTPs have a physical need for silent space. I had little problem adjusting (easy to tune out the outer world) but she was always frustrated until she found another outlet (actually many outlets) for all that extraverted chatter and activity. Again, fine with me. She still struggles.

ISTPs are inscrutable and impossible to control in any way shape or form. Very annoying to controlling types!
 

sLiPpY

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The highest compliment I ever got from an ENFJ is that "You are un-trainable."

:D

And McRumi nailed it.
 

Little Linguist

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The highest compliment I ever got from an ENFJ is that "You are un-trainable."

:D

HOLY CRAP are you kidding? :doh: I think it takes a shit-load before an ENFJ admits that. :shock:
 
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