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  1. #81
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    In response to Heinel, I'd expand the concept of mirroring differences as a useful growth process. Noticing those differences often turn out to be similarities that allow us to see ourselves in a truer light.

    n' seamaid

    "One can only search one's soul," is akin to the realization that one cannot be "caused" to love, but one can most certainly choose to love under almost any given circumstance.

  2. #82
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    What do you find difficult about it?
    Being an ENFJ? Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    One can only search one's soul.
    And I think ENFJs need to evaluate their connections with other people to do this. It can become tangled & terrifying. Being alone essentially limits my ability to see myself or make sense of what I feel & think about me & my world. I can be fine alone, need it sometimes, but it is work to be alone. And, if I am always looking for self-betterment, I am also looking to be independent, capable & self-aware - which is usually gauged by one's ability to be isolated. (I think this is where the attraction to SPs comes in, because they can live outside their emotions & actually sort them out alone whereas I live through mine & can't sort them out without something external.) There is a constant tension there.

    I think I am unaware of how vulnerable this process can make me until I come in contact with someone who doesn't supply me with the kind of feedback that I use to process everything. The same is probably true of my ISTP (who had several outbursts at the beginning of our relationship that seemed pretty off for him). He didn't really feel that those deeper feelings ever mattered or needed to come out. And I don't think that's wrong... I think I could be just fine never really getting much into Ti & he would be fine without a lot of Fe. But not being together. Together I feel like we will have to figure out ways to remind ourselves of these weak spots just enough to give the other what they need every now and again.

    I have never had issues that I recognized as insecurity or self doubt. At least not conventional ones. I have felt overly judgmental, blunt or socially exhausted before but I've never felt unlovable or oppressive or needy or anything like that before this relationship. In the beginning I felt a fear that I was losing myself but it left when I became aware that I was only afraid those things were possible (I was to blame for the conflict) because I knew I couldn't blame him for being different from me. I went through a period of thinking I was weak because I couldn't adapt to be like him. Once I learned how he worked, and he started to understand me, that changed dramatically.

    He is a wonderful sweet man who has given me so much. I know that we may not be "together forever," but I'm not going to leave him just to look for someone "better" for me when he loves me & tries to be there for me as much as he can. I can't even believe I got through the beginning of it all, because it was a nightmare, but I've heard "find someone more compatible... it'll never get better... he'll never give you..." a million times & the only reason I have gotten to see how he loves me & what he wants to give is because I gave us a chance. Its so easy to just say those things & completely disregard that I have a loving person who is my best friend & my family & it will never be as simple as looking him in the eye & saying he's too difficult to love.

    And trust me poki, she doesn't want to blame you. It happens as a reaction based on her anger because she doesn't have time to process how she really feels about it. It is very difficult to control that kind of outburst but once she thinks about it she probably concludes that she was hasty & just doesn't say anything because there is shame in bringing it up after she's cooled down. You probably appear to forget she blamed you at all & she takes advantage of that so she doesn't have to feel ashamed that she was wrong to be so judgemental. I bet if you asked her she'd say just that.

    and mcmartinez84, I absolutely adore you. Thank you so much.

  3. #83
    Senior Member countrygirl's Avatar
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    I too use my ISTP husband as a sounding board for personal growth. It is very hard to sort through those emotions objectively especially when it is a subject that provokes a strong emotionsl response for whatever reasons.

    Poki, I do the same thing to my husband . It is more of an expression of feelings rather than one of facts. And I have learned that my feelings of frustrations are not my husband's problems. Eventually we come to some sort of agreement (but not when I am in emo mode).

  4. #84
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    Ladies, those were some clearly communicated and enlightening post.

  5. #85
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    What I find interesting and curious is that you rarely see an SP in the other forums, but the other types are always over here in SP land. This mirrors the situation in the non-cyber world. It's not that ISTPs want to be alone, it's that we just ARE alone..it's our natural way of being...and we welcome others as long as they don't block the door and keep the chatter to a minimum.

    Unlike the other types, we never bought the "soul mate" hokum that Hollywood has manufactured to great profit. We're quite content on our own...which is why we don't wander over to the other forums, but are happy to host visitors here.
    I just wanted to respond to this. I think the duality that one has to have mentally to be very close to someone but still their own person is really obvious in the tension between ENFJ & ISTP. Everyone pretty much knows that we are alone in reality, but still need connection to others. When you are right on one side or the other (like ENFJs who may struggle with the idea that we are always in some ways alone, and ISTPs who may struggle with the idea that we need those connections) it becomes difficult to be reminded, by your opposite, of what you don't really want to focus on.

    Its not really that ISTPs are more or less alone than any other type, but that they are more aware of, and comfortable with, what divides them from other people. But the lines drawn in very close & open relationships are always bound to get fuzzy, & that bothers both an ISTP and an ENFJ for opposite reasons. I am bothered by the notion that my connections are influenced (or made) on a day to day basis, will not last "forever" and can never be "complete." While an ISTP might be comforted by those thoughts because they feel there is truth & life behind them, which is more important to an ISTP than dreams or meaning.

    And I think people come in here so much because when we are getting into all this abstract personality evaluation... like the above (). SPs are just so d*mn refreshing ().

  6. #86
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    Exclamation Where there's a will, there's a way...

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    ...
    and mcmartinez84, I absolutely adore you. Thank you so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    I just wanted to respond to this. I think the duality that one has to have mentally to be very close to someone but still their own person is really obvious in the tension between ENFJ & ISTP. Everyone pretty much knows that we are alone in reality, but still need connection to others. When you are right on one side or the other (like ENFJs who may struggle with the idea that we are always in some ways alone, and ISTPs who may struggle with the idea that we need those connections) it becomes difficult to be reminded, by your opposite, of what you don't really want to focus on.
    ...
    I believe that one can achieve just about anything one sets their mind to achieve.

    toast, I read your subsequent posts and they are well written; they helped me to understand you and the situation with your SO a lot better than the original post did. Your words seem very heartfelt and sincere. From what I can see, you have the right attitude, as far as not giving up, trying to understand (your SO), and wanting to be understood (by your SO). Again, I apologize that I lost sight of that. Perhaps a lot of us in this thread lost sight of that.

    I agree that mcmartinez84 has been very supportive and has provided you with some of the best sound advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    ...
    And I think people come in here so much because when we are getting into all this abstract personality evaluation... like the above (). SPs are just so d*mn refreshing ().
    ...yep.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think half of the problem is solved when at least one person realized that there is a problem.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  8. #88
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    and mcmartinez84, I absolutely adore you. Thank you so much.
    You're definitely welcome!





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