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  1. #71
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Default Burnt Toast

    To the OP: Toast, I love ya, but it's time to let it go, and play on your own team. Go find a nice INTP guy (there's a hell of a lot more of them, then there are women), and settle down; ISTP will just continue to mess you up. I know you love each other, but you will never be at peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    So, I'm in a conflicting relationship... (I'm ENFJ female & he's ISTP male).
    Things go up & down, in a kind of roller coaster, but they have gotten much better (happier, peaceful, satisfying, secure) as the relationship has progressed.

    Of course, I am the vocal one. I am the one with "issues" about how we bump heads. He, being pretty carefree & apart from his emotions, seems to just sail through the relationship, like he would be perfectly fine with keeping our troubles under the surface & very capable of never giving them a second thought. (I used to think this made him shallow, selfish or not engaged / in love with me... I am very happy to say I know better now.)

    Trouble is, I am the opposite. I can't "sit on" anything for very long. I need to talk or the conflict becomes consuming & I have a very serious fight or flight thing. Our conflicts don't really have immediate resolutions. The ones we have worked out only got that way after a long time of trying different things & becoming more confident with each other. In his eyes, 'why talk about it if we can't fix it?'... makes perfect sense. But then again, to me I don't think we'd ever resolve anything if we hadn't talked about it even though its been difficult for both of us to do just that (It is very hard for talk as well because I never want a conflict to become worse, and that's always a risk).

    I think we are both right, but to extremes. If we could just "go with the flow", things would smooth out... If we could be open to the point of understanding each other, things would work well too. That isn't going to happen in either direction. If we try either one, one of us is bound to be miserable. If we moderate & compromise, then things get done.

    And while I understand that I can feel like bringing up issues way too much, and I am really, really working on that, I still need a better method of talking with him when it does happen. We've been doing rather well & things have been really good lately. I just thought I'd ask for some advice from ISTPs and those who've been close to them. Seems like a good idea to think about this when I'm happy and levelheaded.

    Anyone been in a relationship with an ENFJ or an ISTP who has any advice on this (or similar experience)? poki, aren't you with an ENFJ? Did she feel accusative and judgmental when she confronted you about problems? I know that he feels like I am attacking him when I try to talk to him. It is almost inevitable, because it is easy for him to see "our" issues as "my" issues if he is completely able to disregard them. And since we can't immediately resolve anything, it seems like I'm just talking to make him feel bad.

    Basically all I'm trying to get out of "talking" is some confirmation that he is aware of what I'm feeling and reassurance from him that he still feels like everything will work out. (Because he can put troubles on the back burner with ease, whereas I am constantly struggling with them. I just want to know he hasn't forgotten that so I can have faith that we'll work it out.) There has to be some way to make it possible for him to hear & understand me without making him feel a.) hopeless because he can't 'fix" everything right away, and b.) offended & defensive because I am confronting him with something I know can't be fixed right away.

    Thanks for any response.
    Love is the point.

  2. #72
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    It seems like a possibly large assumption that she has deep seated, emotional insecurities which are the sole driving reason behind her search for reassurance, or spoken confirmation.
    ISTPs have a strange effect on ENFJs; they tend to amplify the voltage of our insecurities. I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption considering the OP at all.

    Ye spoke of how meeting halfway should be easy when with the right person - but there are situations when two very, truly different people come together and want to make it work, but have to figure how to be with each other. It's a weird set of circumstances to be in.
    I do agree with this part, very much so. I've always heard it said that two people of any types can come together and have a relationship--and I agree, BUT having a relationship with your polar opposite, does not make a peaceful household. Not for either party. You don't speak the same language (S/N), AND you see things from opposite perspectives. Over years and years this would probably improve, but I guarantee you, the heartache suffered in the meantime will far outweigh any understanding garnered for the ENFJ. I really don't believe it's worth it.

    Don't get me wrong, I love ISTPs...at a distance. I'm a friend to one of them, but we're both pretty insensitive to one another (we're both guys, so we can get away with that and still be buddies).

    To what Toast said about the ENFJ perspective: When we find our place in life, there we can shine. Tends to happen when wisdom is a commodity sought after, but ime, life just gets better as we get older. Much girl.
    Love is the point.

  3. #73
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've followed people from room to room not giving any physical or mental space to detach. What they do that exasperates me is clam up and stop talking. As bad as this sounds, an argument is still feedback, negative feedback but there's still something I can work with. Even if they've clammed up, I've done something to get my feedback loop up and running again.


    You scare me.



    I've long reached the conclusion that IxTPs do best with people more similar to them...I find IxTPs to be the least adaptable to different types of personalities they have intimate contact with.
    Agreed
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  4. #74
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    ISTPs have a strange effect on ENFJs; they tend to amplify the voltage of our insecurities.
    Maybe ISTP's amplify your insecurities but ENFJ's amplify our anger to explosive levels.

    Never had so many outbursts as in the two years I dated an ENFJ. I laugh about them now. So ridiculous.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Maybe ISTP's amplify your insecurities but ENFJ's amplify our anger to explosive levels.

    Never had so many outbursts as in the two years I dated an ENFJ. I laugh about them now. So ridiculous.
    Outbursts are funny.

    ENFJ's are natural TNT relationship material. In absence of being close and having expectations, they're fun.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    What I find interesting and curious is that you rarely see an SP in the other forums, but the other types are always over here in SP land.
    Why are us NFs so attracted to ISTPs?

    Maybe ISTP's amplify your insecurities but ENFJ's amplify our anger to explosive levels.
    What about INFPs to ISTPs?

  7. #77
    Senior Member seamaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooliogirly1000 View Post
    Why are us NFs so attracted to ISTPs?
    Because they are mysterious and seem to always be so cool, calm, and collected? They are always in control of themselves. They aren't slaves to their feelings and this is both perplexing and fascinating to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooliogirly1000 View Post
    What about INFPs to ISTPs?
    I think we might frustrate them occasionally (if we are too quiet or clingy), and if we are VERY insecure/in need of reassurance ad nauseum they might be annoyed enough to end the relationship.

    On the other hand, when the INFP is healthy, the ISTP can really appreciate how easy-going yet attentive to their needs we are. I can easily imagine a happy ISTP/INFP household where both are together yet apart, tinkering away on their own hobbies, and coming together afterward for cooking and cute conversation. However, to be honest, most of the time, if the INFP is looking for serious soul-searching together, it's not gonna happen .

  8. #78
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    One can only search one's soul.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    One can only search one's soul.
    Yeah, I suspect that to be the case too. However, that is only part of the solution!

    If you can find someone you cared about enough, the differences will help quicken the process. (That doesn't mean we can slack out on introspection, of course.)
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  10. #80
    Senior Member seamaid's Avatar
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    By searching souls, I mean what psychotherapists (etc.) do, so I think it is something people other than yourself can explore. What do YOU mean by "One can only search one's soul."?

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