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  1. #21
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Mmm...I'd love to try out if that's true...
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  2. #22
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    HOLY CRAP are you kidding? I think it takes a shit-load before an ENFJ admits that.

    LOL.

    But did she say it nicely???

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    LOL.

    But did she say it nicely???
    "Hopelessly un-trainable."

    Just a matter of fact and observational tone. There was however a deep *sigh*

  4. #24
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    "Hopelessly un-trainable."

    Just a matter of fact and observational tone. There was however a deep *sigh*
    always with the sigh.

    <sigh>

  5. #25
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    Exclamation Talk is cheap!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winged View Post
    Yes, we are, but dismissing the OP's concerns is part of what started their relationship difficulties in the first place. Looking for reassurance that one is heard and understood is not unreasonable, nor is wanting one's problems to be considered valid.

    This drama-seeking, as you put it, is not the best way to go about it - but neither is dismissing someone's expression of their feelings as "annoying" and "whining", instead of assisting them figure out a better way to do it.

    A meeting point somewhere near the halfway mark really should be the focus here, not speaking on how one is better than the other - going with the flow or openly expressing and discussing everything.
    In a nutshell:
    Of course she should dismiss unhealthy feelings and NOT express them. What's the benefit??

    ...she needs to suck it up! Why? Because...

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP has not suggested that there are any 'real' issues other than the insecurities that she entertains in her own mind and her subsequent need for constant verbal reassurance from her ISTP. Actions speak louder than words, but yet she's reaching out for words to reassure her. It's as if she's disregarding his actions completely; she doesn't mention them in her OP. Let's be realistic here, would words really be enough to satisfy someone who has some deep rooted emotional, insecurity issues? ..No!

    In addition to my advice posted earlier, I want to add that in order for the OP to relax and be confident in a loving relationship with anyone, she must first learn to love herself first.

    If I'm way off base with this, please provide me more facts about the ISTP's 'actions' that would justify the need for reassurance. ...and YES, 'feelers' can make fact-based decisions, rather than emotional-based decisions, when we want to and try.

    As I said before, there are plenty of cuties in the sea and to the OP: if you don't have deep rooted insecurity issues, why force a square peg in a round hole and try to force morph a personality type to be something you want it to be, but it's inherently not. Man it sounds complicated!

    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    I don't think the intent was to dismiss the concern, more so to point out the reality that the conflict is due to the inherent nature of trying to make a relationship work with a type that is the "LEAST" compatible with one's own.
    ...agreed!

  6. #26
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    Wow! That all sounds like a living hell!!!

    I mean this in the nicest possible way... In your original post (above), you come across as hyper and a tad on the scary controlling side. Perhaps you are just upset and that's why?

    ...there's just no need for all this verbal nilly willyness!


    Why do you need reassurance and what are you expecting him to fix again?? It seems logical to me that if he's still with you, despite all of your "talking", then he's aware of what you're feeling and perhaps his presence means he's already worked it out that "everything will work out" between the two of you! Some things go without saying. If you continue on this nilly willy demanding way, he'll probably be planning his escape, so he can relish in peace and quiet without the leash.

    My best advice is to relax. If you find that task impossible around him, then there are plenty of cuties in the sea; go meet your match!
    "verbal willy nillyness?" I don't exactly get what you're trying to say but I didn't write the post while I was particularly upset. I am an ENFJ, I feel inclined to control because I am constantly planning and looking for certainty. I am fully aware of this & how it conflicts with other people, especially my polar opposite ISTP. Again, I actively work on making sure I do not seek to control or change my partner. I have worked very very hard to give him space, and I feel like we are very strong in most areas. But, as my post was intended to imply, I can not entirely suppress my need for feedback. My ENFJ desire for certainty will never be completely gone, and the conflict lies in my inability to read his type of feedback. He has done a lot for me in this regard, but its never going to be all sunshine & puppydogs. Sometimes, if the issue is bad enough to me or if he acts out because he won't talk about how he's stressed, I can't actually suppress my need for communication. Talking about things will happen as long as we are together. He has expressed that he understands this, but I want to do my part to make sure I can communicate with him more effectively when this happens.

    Also, I am saying "fix things" in reference to his point of view, not mine. I think that should be cleared up right away. I do not expect him to fix things, he believes I do because he doesn't understand why I would approach him if I didn't. This is where our communication problem lies. He doesn't want to talk at all if it doesn't make logical sense, as in leading to a solution. He feels attacked. I will keep up trying to not engage in talks like this as much as I can, but when they happen, I want to make him feel less "arrrrgghh."

    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    ah, toast...

    Reading through is there mutual agreement there is a conflict that needs to be talked through? Or is it that you feel conflicted and have changes that you want for the other party to make?

    It can often be both at the same time from either of us. There have been times when he gets very upset over something but he will not want to talk about it & if its bad enough, he will act out. But its usually easier to deal with those situations because once he's acted out & his feelings were triggered, he is responsive & has an easier time talking. If it is something that he is doing or not doing that's making me feel a certain way, that's when it gets difficult. If something becomes an issue I expect "us" to work through it though, not him.

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    In summary, the OP is "making a big deal" out of stuff, rather than "going with the flow" of things...
    I agree with poki here completely, As an ENFJ, I am: "make a big deal out of things", as an ISTP, he is "go with the flow." It is those differences that make it difficult. Being an ExxJ does not make me wrong because an IxxP thinks differently, but it isn't a choice for either of us to naturally do things that way. Telling me to 'cool it' is absurd. I've been trying to do just that since as far back as I an remember... that's why I'm attracted to an ISTP, because he naturally excels what I've never been very strong at. And trust me, being with him has definitely helped me with that.

    Also, I understand all the ENFJ stigmas about the "controlling, dramatic, whining" persona. I think its important to reiterate that I am aware of how these come up & I actively work to be fair and considerate of him. I am not what you would call needy, dramatic or fussy towards him on a regular basis by any means. All of this is irrelevant either way... We have already pretty much met half way, I just want to make the conflict less severe when we talk. So far everyone seems to be just implying that its impossible.

    And when I've seen substantial progress in our attempts to understand each other, am quite happy with him on a regular basis & am very taken with him as a person & friend I am certainly not going to just go: "I'm sorry, but we aren't going to work. We are conflicting types you see... what do you mean you have no idea what I'm talking about?"

  7. #27
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Heck, if you can't revel in being an ENFJ, find someone who appreciates you for who you are. Sounds like way too much work and all on your side as well. And while I appreciate that relationships entail work and compromise, there are thresholds.

    I think if someone wants to be really loved by an ISTP, they should come back in their next life as a dog or cat (that is, as long as it's not a yappy dog <evil on four legs> or a lab/retreiver who needs to have a ball thrown every 5 secs...cause they would go to the pound lickety-split).

  8. #28
    Senior Member ubiquitous1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    If you have a person who sees prevention of a possible problem as a more effective strategy to even needing to solve the problem in the first place then yes there will be friction. Using myself as an example, I'd rather prevent a easily preventable problem (if I view it as preventable) than go into problem-solving mode. I find needing to fix something that didn't need to break as creating needless drama and headache.
    This has been a consistent problem for me & my ISTP.

  9. #29
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    Heck, if you can't revel in being an ENFJ, find someone who appreciates you for who you are. Sounds like way too much work and all on your side as well. And while I appreciate that relationships entail work and compromise, there are thresholds.

    I think if someone wants to be really loved by an ISTP, they should come back in their next life as a dog or cat (that is, as long as it's not a yappy dog <evil on four legs> or a lab/retreiver who needs to have a ball thrown every 5 secs...cause they would go to the pound lickety-split).
    In conflicting relationships there will always be a party who is more proactive in trying to understand their partner. Its just reality. I'm not leaving him because things are hard. I don't think anyone could "revel" in being an ENFJ for any good length of time. Though I am very glad to be who I am, it is a very difficult way of approaching the world. I'm not going to look for anyone to help me do that either way.

    This post has just become depressing actually. I just wanted to be proactive & I am feeling pretty good about us & I'm not going to let this get to me so I think I'm done with this one.

    But I get the pets thing. He loves our cats tremendously.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    I agree with poki here completely, As an ENFJ, I am: "make a big deal out of things", as an ISTP, he is "go with the flow." It is those differences that make it difficult. Being an ExxJ does not make me wrong because an IxxP thinks differently, but it isn't a choice for either of us to naturally do things that way. Telling me to 'cool it' is absurd. I've been trying to do just that since the day I was born... that's why I'm attracted to an ISTP, because he naturally excels what I've never been very strong at. And trust me, being with him has definitely helped me with that.

    Also, I understand all the ENFJ stigmas about the "controlling, dramatic, whining" persona. I think its important to reiterate that I am aware of how these come up & I actively work to be fair and considerate of him. I am not what you would call needy, dramatic or fussy towards him on a regular basis by any means. All of this is irrelevant either way... We have already pretty much met half way, I just want to make the conflict less severe when we talk. So far everyone seems to be just implying that its impossible.
    Perhaps I was too harsh, please forgive me. My final thoughts on your last post...

    A married guy told me once that If things are complicated when you are dating, then it will only get amplified when you are married; he said, "expect it!" I am an optimisic girl, but I couldn't dispute his words. Whether you're married or single, the time comes when you must ask yourself, "is it worth it?" Only *you* can decide that for yourself. Even with your last post, I'm still of the opinion that your relationship situation is a lot more complicated than it needs to be. If you're with the right person, meeting halfway is not forced. I believe it's a natural process.

    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    Heck, if you can't revel in being an ENFJ, find someone who appreciates you for who you are. Sounds like way too much work and all on your side as well. And while I appreciate that relationships entail work and compromise, there are thresholds.
    ...true that!!! :redface:

    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    I think if someone wants to be really loved by an ISTP, they should come back in their next life as a dog or cat (that is, as long as it's not a yappy dog <evil on four legs> or a lab/retreiver who needs to have a ball thrown every 5 secs...cause they would go to the pound lickety-split).
    lol ...

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