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  1. #1
    Pumpernickel
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    Default Breaking through to an ESTP

    *POOF*


    May this thread no longer exist!
    Last edited by JustHer; 12-09-2009 at 06:20 PM.

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    You provide them with another Se-distraction, task, what have you, away from said person. Or, you take the Se-joy out of whatever it is he's doing that then hurts the other person.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #3
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    I don't know details of what's going on inter-dynamically with persons involved - but have you tried approaching ESTP and telling them (straight up) that ESTP's actions (be specific) are causing harm to another person?
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  4. #4
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I don't know details of what's going on inter-dynamically with persons involved - but have you tried approaching ESTP and telling them (straight up) that ESTP's actions (be specific) are causing harm to another person?
    This.
    In my experience, showing them exactly what they're doing works well. Putting it in their face, but in a way that they aren't likely to get too defensive and put off.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  5. #5
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I don't know details of what's going on inter-dynamically with persons involved - but have you tried approaching ESTP and telling them (straight up) that ESTP's actions (be specific) are causing harm to another person?
    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    This.
    In my experience, showing them exactly what they're doing works well. Putting it in their face, but in a way that they aren't likely to get too defensive and put off.
    Agreed. We're oblivious to things at times but are not vicious. What is going on specifically? The description is very vague, and very general. That limits the utility of potential responses...

    Good luck!
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  6. #6
    Senior Member une_autre's Avatar
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    Changing a person is pretty difficult.

    I can tell you that if somebody informed me that I am hurting (unintentionally!) a person that is not in my circle of friends, I wouldn't give a damn about it. I trust my reasoning and my way of acting is within the limits of morality and ethicality, hence if one can't handle it, that's too bad.

    I don't go for the emotional stuff, so I would see no reason to change a behaviour that is perfectly normal and justified (assuming that's the case, but you didn't specify) just because somebody will start crying over it (that's an figure of speaking, but you get the point).

    Obviously, if that person is a friend, I would react differently, but again, you didn't mention anything about the relationship between the ESTP and that somebody else.

    You didn't give too many details and it's hard to say what I would do in that situation and what would be the best way to actually change something.

    Nonetheless, in my opinion the best solution is a straight-forward talk. Now, as to how he might decide to change things, I don't know. It's pretty specific to every situation.

  7. #7
    Pumpernickel
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    Sorry, I should have provided more details!

    Basically the case is that a slightly emotionally unhealthy ISFJ is constantly taking on and absorbing the problems of the ESTP. The ESTP is sort of taking advantage, asking the ISFJ to do things for them all the time, and as a result the ISFJ becomes overly stressed and nervous all the time.

    The problem is that its a family relation and the ISFJ will ALWAYS worry about the ESTP's problems, so expecting that to change is unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by une_autre View Post

    I would see no reason to change a behaviour that is perfectly normal and justified (assuming that's the case, but you didn't specify) just because somebody will start crying over it (that's an figure of speaking, but you get the point).
    This is pretty much the argument here. The ESTP is focused on the fact that they should be able to express themselves how they want and also on the fact that the ISFJ doesn't have to do things for them if they dont want to. This makes perfect sense, but doesn't change the fact that the person who constantly suffers from this (and on a very deep level) is the ISFJ who cares about them.

    How do I get the ESTP to think beyond their own self interests and actually seriously try to change to avoid hurting someone that loves them?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Sorry, I should have provided more details!

    Basically the case is that a slightly emotionally unhealthy ISFJ is constantly taking on and absorbing the problems of the ESTP. The ESTP is sort of taking advantage, asking the ISFJ to do things for them all the time, and as a result the ISFJ becomes overly stressed and nervous all the time.

    The problem is that its a family relation and the ISFJ will ALWAYS worry about the ESTP's problems, so expecting that to change is unrealistic.



    This is pretty much the argument here. The ESTP is focused on the fact that they should be able to express themselves how they want and also on the fact that the ISFJ doesn't have to do things for them if they dont want to. This makes perfect sense, but doesn't change the fact that the person who constantly suffers from this (and on a very deep level) is the ISFJ who cares about them.

    How do I get the ESTP to think beyond their own self interests and actually seriously try to change to avoid hurting someone that loves them?
    The part that stuck out is that the ESTP is asking the ISFJ to do things to a level that causes the ISFJ to much stress. The fix is to have the ESTP let the ISFJ know the problems, but not "ask" that person to do things about them or not ask as much and try and tackle it themselves asking only when they actually need help or just not as much. Then the ISFJ is free to help when they want and when the ESTP really needs it they should feel like they can ask. Seems like the ESTP may be relying to heavily on the ISFJ.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #9
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Is the ESTP self-destructive?

    Just wondering if this is a case of a lifestyle disagreement between them or something more serious like ISFJ enabling ESTP.

    There are ways to still care and worry about someone but ISFJ has to find her boundaries and where to draw the line.

    EDIT: Change can be guided by others but it's driven internally.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  10. #10
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by une_autre View Post
    Changing a person is pretty difficult.

    I can tell you that if somebody informed me that I am hurting (unintentionally!) a person that is not in my circle of friends, I wouldn't give a damn about it. I trust my reasoning and my way of acting is within the limits of morality and ethicality, hence if one can't handle it, that's too bad.

    I don't go for the emotional stuff, so I would see no reason to change a behaviour that is perfectly normal and justified (assuming that's the case, but you didn't specify) just because somebody will start crying over it (that's an figure of speaking, but you get the point).
    Yeah but...people can kill you if you are too mean with them especially an ISFJ.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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