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  1. #51
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post

    You can tell the ESTP to back off, but it's not likely to fix or change anything. We tend to believe strongly in free will and personal accountability. Tell the ESTP what you think without tiptoeing aroudn the issue, but if they don't see that the ISFJ is unhappy with the arrangement, they're not likely to change what they're doing. You can talk yourself breathless at an ESTP about what they should do and what they should see, but unless they see or do something for themselves, all your talk will amount to nothing because we learn by our own experiences and no one else's.
    Thank you this part is really true, it sounds like something she would say too. That's why I am asking about what the best way to get through to her will be, it seems like the only solution so far is to point it out to her as she does it. This would count as "learning by her own experience" I think.

    Yes the ISFJ is fully aware of being taken advantage of, but me NOT getting involved is not even a possibility. How are you supposed to watch your mother talk about how worthless she feels she is and not try to help? This is obviously the ISFJs problem and not the ESTPs, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't try as hard as I possiblt can to get the ESTP to HELP the ISFJ get better.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Thank you this part is really true, it sounds like something she would say too. That's why I am asking about what the best way to get through to her will be, it seems like the only solution so far is to point it out to her as she does it. This would count as "learning by her own experience" I think.

    Yes the ISFJ is fully aware of being taken advantage of, but me NOT getting involved is not even a possibility. How are you supposed to watch your mother talk about how worthless she feels she is and not try to help? This is obviously the ISFJs problem and not the ESTPs, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't try as hard as I possiblt can to get the ESTP to HELP the ISFJ get better.
    I uh, oh...

    That's a boundary issue too. It's not your job to parent a parent.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    This all sounds like justxher is projecting her opinions and morals onto a situation where getting involved would be akin to banging her head against a brick wall.

    I'm in a similar situation with a friend. His ex-girlfriend takes advantage of him horribly. Not only does he allow it, he is completely aware of what is happening. I have talked to him about it several times and he has told me specifically that he enjoys doing things for her and I should stay out of it. Even though in my perception, their relationship is horribly dysfunctional, he does not want to change.

    If the ISFJ does not want to change, talking to the ESTP will be absolutely useless. You want to treat the symptom of the problem, the ESTP, because they're the most obvious choice (the squeaky wheel gets the oil type of thing) when the cause is the ISFJ. She is the one allowing her child to take advantage of her. If she did not enable the situation, then the situation wouldn't be happening.
    Yep.

  4. #54
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    1) Teaching someone to be aware of how their behavior is hurting others is not the same as being a "caretaker."
    Which was exactly my point.

  5. #55
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Yes the ISFJ is fully aware of being taken advantage of, but me NOT getting involved is not even a possibility. How are you supposed to watch your mother talk about how worthless she feels she is and not try to help?
    I have an ISFP mother with exactly the same issue. Only professional therapy would help at this point..and even then...not sure she really wants to change.
    At least she's not Jewish...Oy! the guilt trip would be staggering!

  6. #56
    Member lookingglassworld's Avatar
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    Same dynamic(iSFj-mom,me-EsTP). I'm awful apparently.
    Welcome to the Rabbit Hole
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  7. #57
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lookingglassworld View Post
    Same dynamic(iSFj-mom,me-EsTP). I'm awful apparently.
    LOL. I have a brother who is ESTP and I'm ISTP.
    He's wonderful, I'm the awful one.
    He drives her crazy but gives the verbal feedback she wants, my silence is too non-co-dependent for her.

    Maddening, but bearable.

  8. #58
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    LOL. I have a brother who is ESTP and I'm ISTP.
    He's wonderful, I'm the awful one.
    He drives her crazy but gives the verbal feedback she wants, my silence is too non-co-dependent for her.

    Maddening, but bearable.
    Dear God. A woman with an ESTP son and an ISTP son. How in the world did she survive you two? :yim_rolling_on_the_

    My mother told me if I were the first kid, there would not have been a second.
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  9. #59
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    My INTP brother and his ESFJ wife feel the same about what I think is their ISTP son. They were very pleased to have their ENFJ son first. They did have a third son though, one I think will become an ESFP

    They love their son to death, but he's a handful. And defiant. And wants to do things all his way. The girls in his class love him for being so protective and sweet to them. He's got a temper that he has serious trouble controlling, and a golden heart. Every teacher he's had he has wound around his finger, they all love him, despite him constantly disrupting the class. This is the first year that the teacher isn't fooled by him. His parents were happy to finally see that, as they know their son all too well. He gets tempered by his older brother, who likes to keep the peace, but he's a frigging volcano. He hates having to say sorry or kiss people when greeting. He's hard to punish and will often defy my brother on it. Quite the little hothead. And his passion and zest for life are adorable. He's also my godchild
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  10. #60
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Dear God. A woman with an ESTP son and an ISTP son. How in the world did she survive you two? :yim_rolling_on_the_

    My mother told me if I were the first kid, there would not have been a second.
    LOL. I have 5 other brothers and a sister. She's ISTP as well.

    Fortunately, my Mom comes from good German stock and has weathered it all well.

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