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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Obviously I understand this entirely, but this does not help the situation. I am looking for a solution here, not someone to blame. Yes it makes sense that the ESTP should be able to be themselves without having to worry about how their actions will affect everyone else, but they DO. I am trying to HELP ISFJ work through their issues and I NEED ESTP to work with me on this.
    have you tried working with ESTP on a case by case basis as it is happening?
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #22
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    How old is the ESTP?
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  3. #23
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    The important question is: has the ISFJ complained and asked for help or are you just assuming responsibility for this relationship? If the ISFJ has complained and asked for help than she needs to look at her own co-dependency tendency and/or stop taking on the problems of the ESTP. If it's a case of your assuming responsibility for the relationship, it' s not your place to interfere, unless there is real quantifiable harm occurring.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    The important question is: has the ISFJ complained and asked for help or are you just assuming responsibility for this relationship? If the ISFJ has complained and asked for help than she needs to look at her own co-dependency tendency and/or stop taking on the problems of the ESTP. If it's a case of your assuming responsibility for the relationship, it' s not your place to interfere, unless there is real quantifiable harm occurring.
    Nope the ISFJ has not asked for help. I disagree about interfering, when your family members are in pain you don't just sit by and do nothing



    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    How old is the ESTP?

    About 25!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    have you tried working with ESTP on a case by case basis as it is happening?
    Not yet, but that is probably what I am going to have to try. Is this how ESTPs learn?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Sorry, I should have provided more details!

    Basically the case is that a slightly emotionally unhealthy ISFJ is constantly taking on and absorbing the problems of the ESTP. The ESTP is sort of taking advantage, asking the ISFJ to do things for them all the time, and as a result the ISFJ becomes overly stressed and nervous all the time.

    The problem is that its a family relation and the ISFJ will ALWAYS worry about the ESTP's problems, so expecting that to change is unrealistic.



    This is pretty much the argument here. The ESTP is focused on the fact that they should be able to express themselves how they want and also on the fact that the ISFJ doesn't have to do things for them if they dont want to. This makes perfect sense, but doesn't change the fact that the person who constantly suffers from this (and on a very deep level) is the ISFJ who cares about them.

    How do I get the ESTP to think beyond their own self interests and actually seriously try to change to avoid hurting someone that loves them?
    Sounds like the ISFJ has boundary issues THEY need to work on.

    That is NOT the ESTP's responsibility.

  7. #27
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Some people complain about what they do for others, but they really enjoy having people be dependent on them, even if it's unhealthy. Codependency. Enmeshment gives the parent a lasting power over the adult child, while at the same time, making them appear like the good saint.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Sounds like the ISFJ has boundary issues THEY need to work on.

    That is NOT the ESTP's responsibility.
    See this is the kind of ridiculous attitude that the ESTP is taking on. I am trying to get her to understand the bigger picture.

    Yes, it makes perfect sense. She should be able to say what she wants without worrying about how it will affect someone else. However, this is not how things actually work. This does not CHANGE the fact that she is hurting someone who loves her. This does not change the fact that a small change in her attitude can make a huge difference to someone's emotional well being.

    I am trying to get her to think BEYOND HERSELF and consider someone else. I am trying to get her to put her ego aside here. Nothing is going to get better if she doesn't even try.

  9. #29
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    See this is the kind of ridiculous attitude that the ESTP is taking on. I am trying to get her to understand the bigger picture.

    Yes, it makes perfect sense. She should be able to say what she wants without worrying about how it will affect someone else. However, this is not how things actually work. This does not CHANGE the fact that she is hurting someone who loves her. This does not change the fact that a small change in her attitude can make a huge difference to someone's emotional well being.

    I am trying to get her to think BEYOND HERSELF and consider someone else. I am trying to get her to put her ego aside here. Nothing is going to get better if she doesn't even try.


    Sooo, don't ESTPs share this need of protecting those they love and they consider weaker with ENTJs? Is there any way that this ESTP could love the ISFJ enough to want to protect her? And then the question becomes, can she see the harm she's inflicting, and therefore realize that what she needs to do is protect the ISFJ from herself (both the ESTP and the ISFJ's tendencies)
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  10. #30
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Sounds like the ISFJ has boundary issues THEY need to work on.

    That is NOT the ESTP's responsibility.
    Exactly. Very, very exactly.

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