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  1. #51
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast View Post
    Also, this is far more challenging for some than for others... which is usually the source of that "I'm crazy" feeling marmalade is describing. If you're unable to get over negative feelings about yourself that come up because of conflict in the relationship, but your partner - who appears just as conflicted, can be fine in a moment or two... it makes you wonder about yourself.
    Actually I have another hypothesis about this, and it is based on the interaction I had and saw on this forum. It seems like the challenge is the same in that it's not subjective at all. It is entirely based on the situation.

    This is most visible in arguments between T and F. Ts feel comfortable as soon as the facts and concepts are straightened out. Fs on the other hand, feels comfortable as soon as the emotions are straightened out. It seems that sometimes (or maybe I should say most of the time), the emotional and conceptual aspects of the problems are dealt with one after the other.

    The problem with this is that if you solve the T problems first, the T side may shutdown and drop the issue (because it is fixed), the F side then gets stressed because the F problems aren't fixed. This of course applies the other way as well. T people will get stressed if only the emotions, but not the concepts, are fixed.

    That's why in duality if one is Logical, the other is Ethical. In order to completely resolve conflict, both conceptual and emotional aspects need to be fixed.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    I think there is a difference between someone actively making someone feel inferior (or "crazy") and someone whose mere presence or way of being makes another feel inferior. In the latter case, the fault lies entirely in the inferiority complex of the person who feels inferior. No one should ever dumb themselves down to accommodate someone else's lack of self-esteem. Better to focus on the lack of self-esteem and how to repair that than to ask anyone to be a lesser person than they are.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    I think there is a difference between someone actively making someone feel inferior (or "crazy") and someone whose mere presence or way of being makes another feel inferior. In the latter case, the fault lies entirely in the inferiority complex of the person who feels inferior. No one should ever dumb themselves down to accommodate someone else's lack of self-esteem. Better to focus on the lack of self-esteem and how to repair that than to ask anyone to be a lesser person than they are.


    Though it's easier said than done...
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  4. #54
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    ISTP motto: easier done than said.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    ISTP motto: easier done than said.
    lol, good for you!
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  6. #56
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    But i do understand your meaning.
    ISTPs are sort of the gargoyles of personality types. Often look scary and intimidating but are really quite harmless and once one gets past the facade (meant to keep the insincere and weak of heart away), there is love and wisdom and untold mysteries to explore....and lots of pretty things to look at.

  7. #57
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    But i do understand your meaning.
    ISTPs are sort of the gargoyles of personality types. Often look scary and intimidating but are really quite harmless and once one gets past the facade (meant to keep the insincere and weak of heart away), there is love and wisdom and untold mysteries to explore....and lots of pretty things to look at.
    Inside an ISTP through the eyes of an outsider:

    ~luck favors the ready~


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  8. #58
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    I think there is a difference between someone actively making someone feel inferior (or "crazy") and someone whose mere presence or way of being makes another feel inferior. In the latter case, the fault lies entirely in the inferiority complex of the person who feels inferior. No one should ever dumb themselves down to accommodate someone else's lack of self-esteem. Better to focus on the lack of self-esteem and how to repair that than to ask anyone to be a lesser person than they are.
    Are you saying that people shouldn't put any effort into communicating with someone in a way that would better suit their understanding?

    Isn't this what Fe is all about?

    Or rather, actually caring someone other than yourself?

  9. #59
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    That's not what I said at all. What I said was that no one should stifle themselves to accommodate someone else's lack of self-esteem. Does that mean one should make no effort to communicate with that person in a way that is meaningful and supportive to both parties? No. These are not mutually exclusive actions. Acting falsely is not caring about another. It is caring about how one's self is perceived.

  10. #60
    Senior Member toast's Avatar
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    Heinel, very well put. And it is actually invaluable to me that you wrote about the other side of it... That T needs resolution of the concepts, even after the emotions are put straight. It is really difficult for me to conceptualize an example of that though.

    but... I would say that it is still more challenging to Fs in theory, because "stress", as you put it, to the T is easier suppressed than the irrational emotional reaction that the F would have. The reaction may be comparable, but it can't be completely subjective. How could seeking intellectual closure be as difficult as seeking emotional closure? Both will likely come eventually, but only T can really know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    I think there is a difference between someone actively making someone feel inferior (or "crazy") and someone whose mere presence or way of being makes another feel inferior. In the latter case, the fault lies entirely in the inferiority complex of the person who feels inferior. No one should ever dumb themselves down to accommodate someone else's lack of self-esteem. Better to focus on the lack of self-esteem and how to repair that than to ask anyone to be a lesser person than they are.
    Everyone has potential self esteem issues when faced with a person whose strengths appear to be their vulnerabilities. That can, and does make the person doubt themselves eventually. That can't be blamed on the person feeling inferior either. Just as much as it could destroy a person's self esteem as a whole, its that feeling of inferiority which makes people strive to be better. If it is endured, the person can come to realize how they really want to be & come closer to that. But to say the other individual is "dumbing" themselves down to make things easier for the insecure partner doesn't really make sense to me. How is being understanding towards someone you care about make you less than you were?

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