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  1. #91
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    That's unfortunately completely unfounded. I see our points never got across. You never even bothered to see things in our perspective, which is essentially completely different from yours - Je vs Pi.

    Internal integrity is something that IxxPs value above all else. Nothing is as destructive as giving up a person's own identity for anything else. This does not mean that we do not learn any communication skills. Rather, we learn skills that are compatible with what it means to be ourselves. Yes, those skills exist, even if the EXXJs cannot see it.
    Whether we even disagree on this issue at all depends on what you consider to be "preserving internal integrity", compared to simply "being too stubborn to put a little effort in".

    Brushing something off as a violation of your identity when the reality is that you are just being too stubborn (or find it too insignificant) is what I originally said was a destructive attitude (and what I meant by taking it too lightly).

    IME, with ISTPs their "inner integrity" starts to coincide a lot more with social rules as they mature (when Fe kicks in).

    Also, enough personal attacks please stick to the point.

  2. #92
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Social rules and norms do not gain any significance as the ISTP matures. What does gain significance are human relationships. If paying attention to social rules and norms help foster and maintain those relationships, then attention will be paid. No more, no less.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    Whether we even disagree on this issue at all depends on what you consider to be "preserving internal integrity", compared to simply "being too stubborn to put a little effort in".

    Brushing something off as a violation of your identity when the reality is that you are just being too stubborn (or find it too insignificant) is what I originally said was a destructive attitude (and what I meant by taking it too lightly).

    IME, with ISTPs their "inner integrity" starts to coincide a lot more with social rules as they mature (when Fe kicks in).

    Also, enough personal attacks please stick to the point.
    So you agree with us, good.

    Now we get to work on your inability to distinguish between possibility and reality.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  4. #94
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by McRumi View Post
    Social rules and norms do not gain any significance as the ISTP matures. What does gain significance are human relationships. If paying attention to social rules and norms help foster and maintain those relationships, then attention will be paid. No more, no less.
    That's exactly it.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    So you agree with us, good.
    I'm pretty sure what I just said is that maturity comes with NOT thinking about things in the way the original post described.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    I'm pretty sure what I just said is that maturity comes with NOT thinking about things in the way the original post described.
    "Whether we even disagree on this issue at all depends on what you consider to be "preserving internal integrity", compared to simply "being too stubborn to put a little effort in"."

    You just contradicted yourself.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    "Whether we even disagree on this issue at all depends on what you consider to be "preserving internal integrity", compared to simply "being too stubborn to put a little effort in"."

    You just contradicted yourself.
    No I'm pretty sure you just missed the point entirely (SO entirely) that it's actually kind of funny.

    Allow me to simplify for you, in special ENTJ terminology:

    - If you agree with this dudes original post, then you're an idiot
    - If you agreed assuming he implied something different than what he precisely said, then you're not an idiot.

    On another note, I'm just going to go ahead and move on from this silliness.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    No I'm pretty sure you just missed the point entirely (SO entirely) that it's actually kind of funny.

    Allow me to simplify for you, in special ENTJ terminology:

    - If you agree with this dudes original post, then you're an idiot
    - If you agreed assuming he implied something different than what he precisely said, then you're not an idiot.

    On another note, I'm just going to go ahead and move on from this silliness.
    I must say, Te does take stubbornness to a whole new level. I hope you get something out of this.
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  9. #99
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justxher View Post
    No I'm pretty sure you just missed the point entirely (SO entirely) that it's actually kind of funny.

    Allow me to simplify for you, in special ENTJ terminology:

    - If you agree with this dudes original post, then you're an idiot
    - If you agreed assuming he implied something different than what he precisely said, then you're not an idiot.

    On another note, I'm just going to go ahead and move on from this silliness.
    Hm. Such a curious example of refraining from personal attacks.

  10. #100
    Senior Member McRumi's Avatar
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    One of my closest friends is an ENTJ. They need to argue like we need to breathe. I came across this ENTJ descriptor which made both of us laugh: ENTj's wake up in the morning, take stock of the world, and tell it how it will behave. Sort of a grim and humorless ENFJ ...at their worst. But marvelous otherwise.

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