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  1. #51
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
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    It's easy to manipulate people you know well. My best friend doesn't always want to go out and do things, but he heeds the beck and call of his girlfriend. So basically all I have to do is convince her to do something, then it becomes two vs. one and very easy to to get him to cave in. Do it all the time.

    On the flipside, it may just be my ego talking but I don't think I'm very easy at all to manipulate. I like to think my bullshit detector is finely tuned and it isn't hard for me to put the brakes on anything that is getting pitched to me. I've been told multiple times that I'm hard to figure out, I just love to keep people guessing
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  2. #52
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    You are all a bunch of frauds, and everyone else in the world has you figured out. They're just biding their time until they can leverage that fact to their greatest advantage and screw you like a Tijuana whore at a frat party. However, if you send me $500, I can tell you how to modify your approach to throw those people off and reestablish the dominance in your relationships. Get back to being one step ahead of the game. It's the most intelligent money you'll ever spend in your life.

    So, pretty good?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You are all a bunch of frauds, and everyone else in the world has you figured out. They're just biding their time until they can leverage that fact to their greatest advantage and screw you like a Tijuana whore at a frat party. However, if you send me $500, I can tell you how to modify your approach to throw those people off and reestablish the dominance in your relationships. Get back to being one step ahead of the game. It's the most intelligent money you'll ever spend in your life.

    So, pretty good?

  4. #54
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    You have alot to learn about analyzing people if this is how you use it. For one, the second you "manipulate" or influence their actions you just took control, you lost your observation, your reading of the person. What you are now reading is your influence over the person.
    If you manipulate or influence someone's actions(except with physical force or the threat of violence), you have not gained control of that person. I can continue to read and observe the individual as I did before I influenced him/her. I never gave any specific examples of me actually manipulating others.


    The correct way to do this as an ISTP is to test them and see how they respond. The goal is to see how they respond not what you got them to do. The second you take the latter thought it turns from observation to "manipulation". Once you begin to manipulate you steer the person away from what they want into what you want. Unless your wants are the same, you are setting them up to be unhappy.
    This doesn't make sense on many levels. This thread is about manipulation, not observation. Observation and the subsequent computation of action/reaction/interacton data are the necessary prerequisites to manipulation.

    Many people don't know what they want and they almost certainly don't know how to acquire what they want. If I manipulate another person, I'm not necessarily trying to facilitate their happiness. I don't mean that I manipulate others for exclusively selfish ends. I manipulate for many reasons.

    The action you speak of would be like the Jedi anakin. Someone who is struggling internally to be happy and then uses others to try and make himself happy.
    Absolute happiness is not a logical goal for one's life, imo.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  5. #55
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    This doesn't make sense on many levels. This thread is about manipulation, not observation. Observation and the subsequent computation of action/reaction/interacton data are the necessary prerequisites to manipulation.
    This thread is about manipulation through observation. That's how we xSTPs do it.

  6. #56
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    This thread is about manipulation through observation. That's how we xSTPs do it.
    Manipulation is impotent without observation, unless you're an Xsychic. moot.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    If you manipulate or influence someone's actions(except with physical force or the threat of violence), you have not gained control of that person. I can continue to read and observe the individual as I did before I influenced him/her. I never gave any specific examples of me actually manipulating others.

    This doesn't make sense on many levels. This thread is about manipulation, not observation. Observation and the subsequent computation of action/reaction/interacton data are the necessary prerequisites to manipulation.

    Many people don't know what they want and they almost certainly don't know how to acquire what they want. If I manipulate another person, I'm not necessarily trying to facilitate their happiness. I don't mean that I manipulate others for exclusively selfish ends. I manipulate for many reasons.

    Absolute happiness is not a logical goal for one's life, imo.

    The voice of reason has spoken.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Heinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You are all a bunch of frauds, and everyone else in the world has you figured out. They're just biding their time until they can leverage that fact to their greatest advantage and screw you like a Tijuana whore at a frat party. However, if you send me $500, I can tell you how to modify your approach to throw those people off and reestablish the dominance in your relationships. Get back to being one step ahead of the game. It's the most intelligent money you'll ever spend in your life.

    So, pretty good?
    Oh I bet your PM box is swarmed with offers now. Though I think it'd be much more fun if you make this into an auction - highest bidder gets the lesson
    Check out my blog: http://OrnateRitual.com

  9. #59
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinel View Post
    ISTP on the other hand, will only do it when it fits our Ti schedule. Also, I think we're more likely to use this skill defensively, to not be manipulated.

    I sometimes just need to know the option is there. I won't carry it out if it doesn't fit my goals. I do not do it "just because."
    Yes.

    My mommy always praised me for "never missing a thing" and "always the quiet one watching that you have to look out for." I always thought it was just my mommy that believed this, but turns out psychologists agree and thus it must be a fact. Hooraaahh!

    ...All joking aside, I'm usually too lazy to manipulate, but I am constantly observing. On top of that, I feel like if I share some of my observations or act on them to manipulate, I'm exposing the sneaky side I prefer to keep quiet. If it's exposed, it loses its purpose. I only manipulate as long as it's quiet, harmless, and either in attempt to escape, defend, or keep methods of escape open. So yes, I'm a sneaky little bastard. At times. Or rather, I prefer "super duper escape artist extraordinaire."
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    If you manipulate or influence someone's actions(except with physical force or the threat of violence), you have not gained control of that person. I can continue to read and observe the individual as I did before I influenced him/her. I never gave any specific examples of me actually manipulating others.


    This doesn't make sense on many levels. This thread is about manipulation, not observation. Observation and the subsequent computation of action/reaction/interacton data are the necessary prerequisites to manipulation.

    Many people don't know what they want and they almost certainly don't know how to acquire what they want. If I manipulate another person, I'm not necessarily trying to facilitate their happiness. I don't mean that I manipulate others for exclusively selfish ends. I manipulate for many reasons.

    Absolute happiness is not a logical goal for one's life, imo.
    Many people in this world dont understand cause and effect of what happens when they go after what they want. They are like a horse with blinders. Its called focus and drive.

    If you manipulate someone actions you are not allowing them free choice. You confuse "presenting ALL the details" with "manipulation". You then back it up with the following statements that they dont always know what they want and that you are not necessarily trying to make them happy. Explain or give examples.

    One example of the action you speak of would be yell at them so they think you dont like them to make them go away. We are thinking of 2 different forms of manipulation. Just because you arent aware of a different form does not mean it doesnt exist.

    The interaction part is where you lose track of things because you assume that first reaction was correct and every consecutive reaction Understand everything you say and everything you do has a cause and effect. Everything IS partially your fault the second you step your foot in the door.
    Im out, its been fun

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